If you remove the terms "Mum and Dad"

[BigWoollyJumpers]

Has this been discussed elsewhere - it must have been.

But, it just occurred to me, reading some Stonewall rubbish in an article. If you remove the terms "Mum and Dad", what do children call their parents?

They can use their names for sure, but that's a bit harsh and unloving in a young child. Do they call them Birthing Parent 1 and Birthing Parent 2? Lacks a bit of emotional context I feel. Or perhaps Person A and Person B? It all becomes disassociated, non-emotional language. They might as well be robots.

In discussing your parents with other kids "my parents" is of course universal, and can be used for Lesbian and Gay parents. I think it is pretty standard, in those cases anyway to have two Dads, or two Mums. Never been a problem.

So in the home, what is Stonewalls suggestion for say, a four year, to call their parents.

You are making a flawed assumption that Stonewall cares about children.

Fuck knows?

I still hear in my mind "who's SHE the cat's Mother?" when I come across correspondence with people declaring their pronouns. When I was little we were always being told it was rude!

who's SHE the cat's Mother?
🤣me too!

You have to understand the doublethink. Gendered language is bad. But it's also fine. Children can call their parents mum and dad (who would ever argue with that??) but gendered language must be removed from the whole of society. Of course children can tell who their mother is, but nobody can tell what sex someone is just by looking at them.

This ☝️ Don't ask questions or voice concerns because that's bigotry.

Dad is fine but mum seems to be problematic
Here is an American democrat getting all tangled up trying to explain parental leave.

You can't change any words involving males I'm afraid.
Dad, man, men, prostates etc. That's all fine.

It's just words associated with being a female that are problematic. Even on Sex Toy websites, the words for women have gone and been replaced by Vulva Owners, but the words for men remain unmolested.

So a kid can pick:
Vulva Owner, shortened to Vulvy, and Daddy
Dad and Womb Bearer
Or Dad and Xer
Or Dad and Non Male Parental Unit.
Or Dad and Cervix Owner
Or Dad and Brian, if mum has evaporated into the to ether to be replaced by a beardy bloke.

Etc.

The only times, of course, that mummy or momma or words along those lines may be used is when it's a transwoman talking to preteens on the internet.
"I'll be your mummy now" etc and so on.

I hope that clears up the issues for you.

This sounds awful! Can you point me at the Stonewall article where is says kids can’t use Mum and Dad in reference to their parents?

It's not an overall ban, ie remove it from the dictionary, it's just use more inclusive language when addressing a broader audience. Talking to an individual? Use whatever term they want. Kids can use whatever name they want.
Schools have done this for ages, using parents/carer/caregivers. This is inclusive for kids being cared for by other relatives or outside their family too.

Toddlers and small children don’t give a fuck either fortunately. Stonewall are deluded if they think whatever language policy they dream up will make any difference to young children. Distinguishing between adults based on sex is something even very young babies can and do do. They’re less good with children’s faces and presumably people taking cross sex hormones are more likely to be harder to categorize by sex or to be categorized according to the sex their gender identity aligns with rather than their biological sex. (I believe that’s known as ´passing’).
I still can’t get my toddler to call other fathers ´friend’s daddy’ and not just ´daddy’ though 😂. It’s fairly embarrassing for me when he keeps referring to other daddies as just ´daddy’.

'It's not an overall ban, ie remove it from the dictionary, it's just use more inclusive language when addressing a broader audience.'

Sometimes I'll do this, but everyone was born from a woman and that woman was the mother. I'm not making that language 'more inclusive' because that involves pretending that isn't true.

Maybe we should remove the word Stonewall and call them what they are.

You should purposely misgender and use the wrong pronouns for everyone who is a member of Stonewall. See how they like.

Me three. If I ever have to put my pronouns on my email I'm going to put 'who's she, the cat's mother?'

Ooh, that was painful to watch. She seemed to settle on 'the dad's spouse' (and variations thereof) to avoid saying 'mother'. I do hope she is picked up on that by unmarried Birthing Units for excluding them completely.

I'm really confused by the point of this. Kids will call their parents and other relatives whatever they like. My son calls his grandad a totally different nickname but it's a term of affection that he created. It wasn't part of some weird agenda to eradicate "grandad".

In a more public setting, professionals will use phrases like "the person who looks after you" because frankly not all kids live with mum and dad, and constantly forcing them to explain that is upsetting for them. It's part of being considerate of the child's needs and doesn't change whatever name is used at home.

You are making a flawed assumption that Stonewall cares about children.

I think Stonewall cares deeply about children. Their new language is strongly marketed towards schools and youth organisations.

It's the same reason that McDonalds gives away toys and colouring materials.

In a more public setting, professionals will use phrases like "the person who looks after you" because frankly not all kids live with mum and dad, and constantly forcing them to explain that is upsetting for them.

This is discussing the Stonewall guidance recommending that organisations don't use the word mother or woman. In fairness that's no longer official policy.

Plenty of parents chose to disperse with 'Mum and Dad' even before the current Trans trend. Many of my friends chose to use first names. The world did not end.

I'm friends with a lesbian couple who are, to their children, Mum and Dad. "Dad" is a butch lesbian who is perfectly comfortable being a butch lesbian, she is a woman and happy with that, but she was always "Dad" to the cats (...I know...) so, as she said, who says "Dad" is a word that can only be for men?

I like it.

I work in Early Years and try and avoid saying "mums and dads" when addressing children I don't know or when addressing groups. Not all kids have mums or dads and those that do are not always being cared for by them. Some are picked up from nursery by grandparents or nannies and so I'll try and say "Time to grab your coats and find your grown-ups" or something.

On an individual level, I'll talk about the parents as the children do, whether it's "mummy" or "mom" or "dad" or a similar term from another language.

I follow a trans parent on social media. Despite being the one to give birth, the handles are all "trans dad" (used to be "Manny" when they were working as a nanny) but the person is adamant that they are "non binary" and so doesn't like heavily gendered language like "daddy" so is the child's "papa" 🙄
Even they haven't found a gender neutral parent name.

Depends on what 'cares about' means.

No, it is not inclusive. It is gaslighting.

Inclusive language is "your grown-up at home", which includes all children's circumstances without judgement or ideology.

Denying material reality in the name of inclusivity is like insisting that Clara's mother will read with her when you know perfectly well that Clara lives with her grandparents/two dads/is in care.

Thanks for some of the suggested alternatives, some are hilarious.
This discussion has also just prompted a memory from my DM. Apparently when I was very young I had 4 Dads. My Dad obviously, and then additionally my three brothers were all Dads as they were all very much older than me, looked after me, and took me out and about. In fact people used to think they were my Dads, as we all look weirdly the same too.