Rape as a weapon of war

[Rosina987]

I am deeply troubled and sickened to hear that rape is being used as a weapon by soldiers in Ukraine. This is not confined to this war either, as it has happened in other conflicts.

What does this say about men that they would make this choice in the context of war?

It says 'same old, same old'

This is a crime of violence, usually against civilians caught in theatres of war, and as an alternative or as an an adjunct to mutilations or other acts of violence.

It had a slightly different aspect in the major war in Europe in the 1990s, where it was also a tool of 'ethnic cleansing' as the aim of rape camps was impregnation.

There are people putting their own lives o the line to stop this - and to stop all atrocities of war, by ending the war . It is hard to say what else can be done - countries that are going to ignore provisions of the Geneva conventions aren't likely to be persuadable.

Sophie Wessex does good work in this area - including in-theatre. It's a shame its so little reported.

(PS: I think this issue should be in feminist chat rather than gender. Any gender angle is dwarfed by the enormity of this type of war crime)

Sorry. First time I have used Feminist area of Mumsnet and I have chosen wrong area. Will repost in correct section.

This board is fine to use for this, OP, don't worry. I find the idea that this is a 'chat' topic a little bit insensitive, really. It's nothing to 'chat' about.

Yes, rape is a horrific part of war. I find it harder to understand than killing people, frankly.

There is an organisation providing abortions to Ukrainian women who may need them post-rape (many refugees are in Poland, where abortion is illegal).

I think it's 'Abortion without borders', will see if I can find the name.

Here it is: abortion.eu/

Yes, I agree that rape as a weapon of war is harder to understand than killing people. I can't get my head around it at all. The organisation you have linked to is clearly providing essential work.

I think sometimes we are bamboozled in modern society by the surface impression that we have made war civilized.

War is not civilized, it is fundamentally about the destruction of other genetic lines in order to allow your own to dominate. Which is why it's not only common in war historically for soldiers to rape women, or to take women and children as slaves, but also in many cases to rape the defeated soldiers, or castrate them and take them as slaves.

In terms of individual psychology, being physically in a battle is a very elevated physical/mental state that involves crossing what are normally very significant social and moral taboos. There is also not as much space as we'd like to think between physical and sexual aggression, they involve very similar physical processes in the body. It's been known forever that when you induce that kind of physical response in a person it is difficult to control. And soldiers have always been recognized as a problem, when war is over, because they have been necessarily conditioned to break these taboos and operate in this ind of elevated aggressive state. It can be difficult to reign that in later on.

This is very insightful post. Thank you.

I've just listened to the Triggernometry interview with Julie Bindel (it's fantastic by the way). At the end when KK asks his usual question ("what's the one thing we should be talking about but aren't"), she says "rape". She briefly said rape is being spoken about in the context of fun-to-head extreme violence but the most common form is within the home and that is about control. Would be good to hear Julie's view on what's happening in the Ukraine

Oh God. GUN not fun!

I've just finished The Power of Women by Dr Denis Mukwege who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2018 with Nadia Murad. He is a Congolese gynecologist who works with women who have been the victim of sexual violence in conflict zones. He has witnessed some of the most awful examples of violence against women in war zones and campaigns for justice & reparations for these women. It is definitely worth reading as is Christina Lamb's book Our Bodies, Their Battlefield. Both are pretty grim reading so a trigger warning is probably necessary.

It's grimly unsurprising. When the early reports started coming from Ukraine I just thought 'and there we have it' of course it was going to happen. It's so depressing and so upsetting.

Thank you for these recommendations. I will definitely look into these.

Thanks for the book recs, Buffy.

Here is Dr Mukwege's Foundation.

www.mukwegefoundation.org/

I replied to this thread yesterday - checked my reply for typos, so it definitely posted - but it's not showing and not showing as deleted either.

Rape in war is as inevitable as bullets and bombs. All forms of sexual violence are. Always has been. Sadly, always will be. It's about breaking genetic lines as a pp said, but it's also about asserting dominance on the level of individual soldiers. When you look at what happens to people stuck in the Libyan camps, or the former underground (literally) containers run by people smugglers in Egypt, extreme vulnerability + lack of accountability + men running the show = rape and other awful acts of violence.

A few years ago there was a survey amongst male U.K. uni students which showed that for a sizeable portion if they'd knew they never be caught, they'd commit rape.

On the political level it's about erasing/polluting/replacing blood lines. But the extreme lack of accountability plays an important role to individuals asserting dominance.

There is a very dark side to male sexuality (as a whole) that floats on the surface in daily life, which as a society we choose to ignore or downplay. It's not coincidence that so much of online porn features extreme humility and pain of women: men seek it out. While I'd say the majority don't want to enact all those things, it satisfies a need. And the majority of viewers also aren't in a position to enact much of it anyway, because there is a basic form of accountability. If our "Western" countries were fighting each other, similar things would be happening as in every other war across time.

Ok this has posted..let's see if it stays!

I was going to suggest having a read of Denis Mukwege's book.

One of the other reasons it's used is that it is a very successful tool for destroying communities, especially in societies where ideas of virtuous femininity and protective masculinity are strong. If all of the women in your community are 'ruined' and men 'failed' in their traditional role as protectors, where does that leave you? How do you put a society back together? Nadia Murad has spoken about this very effectively as well.

Incidentally, that's why people who work in this area do talk about gender. Because it's the gendered driver behind the sexual violence here that's one of the critical things. Some Yazidi women have set up all-women communities as a way of dealing with this.

I work in this area and it happens in every single conflict. Every one.

Are we saying that military commanders encourage rape as a weapon of war, or just turn a blind eye?

The fact that individual soldiers must enjoy doing it makes me sick to the stomach.

Yes, there's a technical & legal difference in definition between 'strategic' rape, which is under a chain of command, and 'opportunistic' rape. Quite a clear summary
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=globaljusticecenter.net/documents/JB%2520Global%2520Policy%2520Article.The%2520Other%2520Red%2520Line%25205.21.14.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiGtNeg2sL3AhVDQkEAHX8dBxkQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3gUnPiiAH1YWdC-HJms-5-" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Here

Are we saying that military commanders encourage rape as a weapon of war, or just turn a blind eye?

That depends which conflict you wish to discuss.

Urgh that's a terrible link and I can't get the link tool to work properly.

Trying it for you Aichek: globaljusticecenter.net/publications/articles/117-the-other-red-line-the-use-of-rape-as-an-unlawful-tactic-of-warfare

Are we saying that military commanders encourage rape as a weapon of war, or just turn a blind eye?
I'd say both depending on circumstances. Sometimes together too..not actively encouraging, but tacitly doing it then turning a blind eye.

The fact that individual soldiers must enjoy doing it makes me sick to the stomach.
The fact that those individual soldiers are the men that walk amongst us in peace time churns my stomach. If they weren't put in a war situation then most of them wouldn't behave like this..because they've not been given the chance.

Exactly.