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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Equal opportunities form for job application

18 replies

EquaOppsSexNotGender · 01/05/2022 10:28

So, I'm applying for a new job and there's an equal opportunties form to fill out.

The first two questions are:

  1. Gender identity, with the options being Female, Male, Non-binary, Prefer not to say, Prefer to self-identify
  2. Is your gender identity the same as the gender you were assigned at birth? Yes, No, Prefer not to say

And then the rest of the questions are about age, sexual orientation, religion, etc.

FFS! I am minded just to put "prefer not to say" for both, just to opt out of the whole thing. But really!

I don't want to out myself as gender critical so using this discussion board as an outlet for my annoyance!

(Also found this really useful link about equality monitoring: www.sexnotgender.info/equality-monitoring)

OP posts:
Babdoc · 01/05/2022 10:33

Is there room to write your answers, or just online tick boxes?
If the former, I would write that you do not have a gender identity, just a sex.
And that sex is never assigned at birth, it’s fixed at conception.

EquaOppsSexNotGender · 01/05/2022 10:37

Babdoc · 01/05/2022 10:33

Is there room to write your answers, or just online tick boxes?
If the former, I would write that you do not have a gender identity, just a sex.
And that sex is never assigned at birth, it’s fixed at conception.

Just tick boxes unfortunately.

OP posts:
Floisme · 01/05/2022 10:40

I believe I'm right in thinking that it's sex rather than gender or gender identity that is the legally protected characteristic, in which case that form is a piece of nonsense. I'm not suggesting you tell them that if you need a job - we all have to eat - but sympathies.

Thelnebriati · 01/05/2022 10:43

Well they've misrepresented the protected characteristics, and that makes their collection of data questionable - which is a GDPR issue. They don't seem to understand or care much about the law, are you sure you want to work there?

EquaOppsSexNotGender · 01/05/2022 10:43

Floisme · 01/05/2022 10:40

I believe I'm right in thinking that it's sex rather than gender or gender identity that is the legally protected characteristic, in which case that form is a piece of nonsense. I'm not suggesting you tell them that if you need a job - we all have to eat - but sympathies.

Yes, exactly. So if they were wanting to collect information for say, the Equality Act, it would be sex not gender.

Thanks for the sympathy - exactly why I posted. Feeling frustrated. It's all very well meaning (it's a gardening charity) but honestly....

OP posts:
EquaOppsSexNotGender · 01/05/2022 10:45

Thelnebriati · 01/05/2022 10:43

Well they've misrepresented the protected characteristics, and that makes their collection of data questionable - which is a GDPR issue. They don't seem to understand or care much about the law, are you sure you want to work there?

Well, tbh, the job is really attractive.

I suspect it's all very well meaning and not thought out at all.

I guess once you're in the job, there's an opportunity somewhere along the line to raise such concerns.

OP posts:
Mandodari · 01/05/2022 12:40

From
www.carecheck.co.uk/what-questions-cant-be-asked-in-a-job-interview/

Can An Employer Ask About Your Gender Or Sexuality?
It is also illegal for employers to inquire about your gender identification and your sexuality.
Whether that’s a question of your gender (male, female, cisgender etc.) or sexuality (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer etc.), your employer is simply not allowed to bring this up.

If this is correct, the firm in question is breaking the law.

EquaOppsSexNotGender · 01/05/2022 12:45

Mandodari · 01/05/2022 12:40

From
www.carecheck.co.uk/what-questions-cant-be-asked-in-a-job-interview/

Can An Employer Ask About Your Gender Or Sexuality?
It is also illegal for employers to inquire about your gender identification and your sexuality.
Whether that’s a question of your gender (male, female, cisgender etc.) or sexuality (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer etc.), your employer is simply not allowed to bring this up.

If this is correct, the firm in question is breaking the law.

In this case, it's on an equal opps form to be submitted with the application, which they say is anomous. It's not part of the job interview.

OP posts:
Mandodari · 01/05/2022 13:04

@EquaOppsSexNotGender
Is completion of the equal opportunity form compulsory? If so, I would argue that it us part of the application process so is illegal. If you are returning it from your email address rather than, say, logging on to a website to complete it, then they cannot say that the process is anonymous. If they are happy to play fast and lose with the law either deliberately, through ignorance or by following ill-conceived advice, are they really the type of firm you want to work with.

EquaOppsSexNotGender · 02/05/2022 10:18

Mandodari · 01/05/2022 13:04

@EquaOppsSexNotGender
Is completion of the equal opportunity form compulsory? If so, I would argue that it us part of the application process so is illegal. If you are returning it from your email address rather than, say, logging on to a website to complete it, then they cannot say that the process is anonymous. If they are happy to play fast and lose with the law either deliberately, through ignorance or by following ill-conceived advice, are they really the type of firm you want to work with.

I agree with you, your points are spot on, but I do want the job, it's not one that comes around often. Small charities, IME, are often well meaning, don't want to cause offense and try to do their best, but often without expert advice or a critical eye. If I do get the job, it does give the opportunity to raise these concerns.

OP posts:
Beamur · 02/05/2022 10:43

I'd just tick prefer not to say for everything.

Floisme · 02/05/2022 10:45

Small charities have to duck and dive and dance to all kinds of tunes in order to secure funding. I can easily imagine them doing this in order to curry favour with one of their funding streams. If that's the case then raising concerns might not do you any good, however well meaning they might be. More sympathies, it's a dilemma for sure.

Mandodari · 02/05/2022 11:07

@EquaOppsSexNotGender
I take your point. Best of luck and hope you land the job.

MangyInseam · 02/05/2022 13:41

I've been looking for work recently, and I am seeing all kinds of stuff about self-identification and diversity and inclusion right across the board in a way that I never have before.

Tbh I am finding it all really worrying. I am very happy for someone who is, say, disabled, to have a place to indicate if they need concrete accommodations in an interview or potentially in the workplace - I think that is very practical and helpful. But more and more the push seems to be to identify abstractions and the line around actually hiring people on the basis of these things is becoming eroded.

MangyInseam · 02/05/2022 13:42

Anyway, I am refusing to fill any of it out if I possibly can, or if it's required I claim as little as possible. I've even considered saying "prefer not to say" about all of it.

EquaOppsSexNotGender · 03/05/2022 06:32

Beamur · 02/05/2022 10:43

I'd just tick prefer not to say for everything.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I did.

OP posts:
EquaOppsSexNotGender · 03/05/2022 06:35

Floisme · 02/05/2022 10:45

Small charities have to duck and dive and dance to all kinds of tunes in order to secure funding. I can easily imagine them doing this in order to curry favour with one of their funding streams. If that's the case then raising concerns might not do you any good, however well meaning they might be. More sympathies, it's a dilemma for sure.

I think they get local authority funding so probably some kind of influence from there. There are a fair amount of woke types in the community gardening sector in the city I live in. I suspect that has also influenced this. I'll soon find out if I get the job.

OP posts:
sashh · 03/05/2022 06:49

THere is usually a place for you to put why you want the job, a sort of personal statement, in that point out that their equal opportunities monitoring is at odds with the law and that they may also be breaching date protection.

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