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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Frustrated GP thread

22 replies

Badapple68 · 30/04/2022 20:54

This thread sums up the frustration being felt by many clinicians atm. Also includes link to GMC consultation on new guidance that patients can complete. Apologies if this has been posted already. Thread seems to be hidden / marked as sensitive (but it's not). mobile.twitter.com/lascapigliata8/status/1520026444340076544

OP posts:
Badapple68 · 30/04/2022 20:54

Not GP sorry - that was my (wrong) assumption

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/04/2022 21:09

I knew it was bad in medicine at the moment but this is very frightening.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/04/2022 22:52

Giving this a little bump as the link is worth reading to see the despair of doctors at how the BMA has been ideologically captured.

Redshoeblueshoe · 30/04/2022 23:02

This is horrific

mrshoho · 30/04/2022 23:18

What a mess. I'm looking around and waiting for the grown ups to take charge.

All the years of progressive preventative screening at risk. If biological females medical records are changed upon request to identify as male how does the NHS identify to request cervical screening? mammograms?

mrshoho · 01/05/2022 00:08

Aldo, what does it mean for interpreting blood test results? Male and female normal ranges often differ but how can it be safe to refer to these ranges if the patient is biologically female but the records have been mix sexed?

nocoolnamesleft · 01/05/2022 00:16

GMC = regulatory body.
BMA = trade union.
Both = ideologically captured.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 01/05/2022 07:54

nocoolnamesleft · 01/05/2022 00:16

GMC = regulatory body.
BMA = trade union.
Both = ideologically captured.

Plus the CQC and NHS England and Scotland.

Anyone who steps out of line can expect their career to be ruined by protracted disciplinary investigations, and to receive no support from the BMA. The General Practitioners' Committee of the BMA has a prominent TW member. (I've got nothing against that person, I'm just noting that it makes any proper critical appraisal of the BMA's TWAW stance very unlikely.)

Badapple68 · 01/05/2022 08:21

Thank you for the bump MrsOvertonsWindow. As well as the safety aspect, the last thing we need now after COVID is additional pressure on our burnt out clinicians. Plus the NHS is completely broke and it's going to take years before we get back to acceptable waiting lists as it is.

OP posts:
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 01/05/2022 08:40

mrshoho · 30/04/2022 23:18

What a mess. I'm looking around and waiting for the grown ups to take charge.

All the years of progressive preventative screening at risk. If biological females medical records are changed upon request to identify as male how does the NHS identify to request cervical screening? mammograms?

There is a way of doing this - though naturally it's an enormous faff.

Your point about blood tests is a good one. No doubt it will be the GP's fault when the first TW's cancer gets missed because their haemoglobin level was interpreted as normal for a woman.

Cuck00soup · 01/05/2022 09:10

Oh FFS. Well it explains the Webberley clusterfuck.

It’s so dangerous to have ideologically captured regulators (and judiciary). We really are living in Orwell’s 1984.

mrshoho · 01/05/2022 09:39

Yes the idea that a lie can become a truth if it's repeated enough and enshrined in laws is happening before our eyes. The thought that it could take only 10% of the population supporting this ideology for it to happen is unreal. The rest of us knowing that it is nonsense but silenced into going along with it. If 1 in 15 secondary students are now identifying as a different gender to their biological sex and the TRAs want the laws changed to amend birth certs I dread the future.

borntobequiet · 01/05/2022 09:44

Terrifying and mad.

RaininginDarling · 01/05/2022 10:15

Thank you. I'd not seen this birdie thread as I'm no longer on the incel site. I wonder how far this capture is evident in practice? It's very alarming. I think about the enormous ovary cyst that put my life in danger (and led to emergency open surgery) last year, I was placed on the gynae ward then and continue to have issues directly related to that today. Imagine if my sex had been obscured as I was wheeled into A&E and the rota of staff did their tests? A hidden issue that could only affect my sex and turned out to need specialist urgent care...

MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/05/2022 10:21

I'm clinging on to the fact that people are starting to speak out. And that the harm being done by obscuring sex based data in medicine is becoming more evident.
But it's terrifying to see how easily children have been caught up in this, with future generations of doctors now steeped in believing fantasies are facts and that those speaking reality are murderous bigots.

Rightsraptor · 01/05/2022 12:15

OP, can I suggest maybe re-posting this to really emphasise the consultation? With respect, it's a bit buried here - the title about frustrated GPs (which I am taking to mean General Practitioner and not gender something) diverted me away initially. And it is, as you say, somewhat buried in La S's Twitter thread too.

This consultation is incredibly important and it's a real opportunity for as many of us as possible to let them know our views.

Fieldofgreycorn · 01/05/2022 12:34

How do they do screening? That’s well covered with processes and advice:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-population-screening-information-for-transgender-people/nhs-population-screening-information-for-trans-people

Changing sex hormone levels will impact on some test interpretations. It’s not just as simple as treating a transsexual person as either just their original sex or current situation. There does need to be a balance of confidentiality but not at the cost of patient safety. It can be done in a way that maintains confidentiality as much as possible but also provides information when relevant.

If medical practitioners use language and processes that make transitioned trans people (whether m2f or f2m) feel alienated and uncomfortable then that is seriously going to risk making them feel excluded and deter them from seeking general healthcare when they need it.

InvisibleDragon · 01/05/2022 12:49

Here are two examples from America of just how much things get messed up when you start changing the sex marker on people's medical records:

  1. Trans man nearly dies of kidney failure because transplant eligibility is calculated differently for men and women:
www.bbc.com/future/article/20200814-why-our-medical-systems-are-ignoring-transgender-people
  1. A trans man experiences a still birth after presenting to hospital with stomach pain. No-one thought to check if he was pregnant because he was male and he thought it was impossible he could be pregnant because he was taking testosterone:
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3692201002

Then of course we have the recently publicised cover-up in which a woman was raped whilst in hospital and the NHS said it was impossible because there were no male patients on the ward:
www.google.com/amp/s/www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744.amp

This legal fiction causes real harm. And somehow most of that harm seems once again to be experienced by female sexed people (of any gender identity). Hmm

DomesticatedZombie · 01/05/2022 13:35

Rightsraptor · 01/05/2022 12:15

OP, can I suggest maybe re-posting this to really emphasise the consultation? With respect, it's a bit buried here - the title about frustrated GPs (which I am taking to mean General Practitioner and not gender something) diverted me away initially. And it is, as you say, somewhat buried in La S's Twitter thread too.

This consultation is incredibly important and it's a real opportunity for as many of us as possible to let them know our views.

Yes, this, please. It's a frightening and important thread, but the consultation part is buried way down in it.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 01/05/2022 13:44

Plus the CQC and NHS England and Scotland.

NHS Wales plus DHSC in NI are likewise. RCM and, despite some pushback, RCN. Actually, most of the Royal Colleges of any part of clinical healthcare.

There are parts of NICE and NIHR going this way. Look at the outputs that discuss gender when they plainly mean sex.

CRUK, Macmillan, and many other charities and voluntary organisations are enforcing this under some degree of compulsion.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 01/05/2022 14:02

Your point about blood tests is a good one. No doubt it will be the GP's fault when the first TW's cancer gets missed because their haemoglobin level was interpreted as normal for a woman.

I take your point and I'm interested in this narrative review of anaemia.

"Anaemia is common, particularly in women and the commonest underlying cause, iron deficiency, is often overlooked. Anaemia is associated with increased morbidity and mortality in patients undergoing anaesthesia; however, women are defined as being anaemic at a lower haemoglobin level than men. In this narrative review, we present the history of iron deficiency anaemia and how women’s health has often been overlooked. Iron deficiency was first described as ‘chlorosis’ and a cause of ‘hysteria’ in women and initial treatment was by iron filings in cold wine. We present data of population screening demonstrating how common iron deficiency is, affecting 12–18% of apparently ‘fit and healthy’ women, with the most common cause being heavy menstrual bleeding; both conditions being often unrecognised. We describe a range of symptoms reported by women, that vary from fatigue to brain fog, hair loss and eating ice. We also describe experiments exploring the physical impact of iron deficiency, showing that reduced exercise performance is related to iron deficiency independent of haemoglobin concentration, as well as the impact of iron supplementation in women improving oxygen consumption and fitness. Overall, we demonstrate the need to single out women and investigate iron deficiency rather than accept the dogma of normality and differential treatment; this is to say, the need to change the current standard of care for women undergoing anaesthesia."

associationofanaesthetists-publications.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ftr/10.1111/anae.15432

As for wading through various materials that seem designed to confuse and heighten the risk of error rather than educate and contribute to patient safety, a fair amount of unhelpful reporting comes into play. I'd originally seen the first line of this (mis)reported elsewhere but it wasn't until MedPage and reading the study that all became clear.

Diabetes Risk Higher for Transwomen vs Cisgender Females
— But risk wasn't any higher compared with cisgender men

…
Transwomen may face a higher risk for developing type 2 diabetes than cisgender women, a new study suggested.

Among those already diagnosed with type 2 diabetes at baseline, a total of 32% of transwomen were on gender-affirming hormone therapy, the group reported in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.
Transwomen also saw a 40% higher risk of developing incident type 2 diabetes during the average 3.1 years of follow-up compared with cisgender females (HR 1.4, 95% CI 1.1-1.8).
However, transwomen didn't have any excess risk for developing diabetes when compared with cisgender men (HR 1.2, 95% CI 0.9-1.5), which the researchers said "likely reflects the known gender disparity in [type 2 diabetes] risk in the general population."
And in an analysis restricted only to transgender and gender-diverse people receiving gender-affirming hormone therapy, transwomen didn't see a significantly higher prevalence of type 2 diabetes (OR 1.0, 95% 0.7-1.3) nor risk for incident diabetes (HR 1.4, 95% CI 0.8-2.4) versus cisgender females. This suggests that the excess diabetes risk for this population wasn't driven by hormonal therapy, the researchers said.

www.medpagetoday.com/endocrinology/diabetes/95937

Fieldofgreycorn · 01/05/2022 14:41

Some blood components change with HT. Estrogen increases HDL in trans women
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33836456/

Healthcare professionals do need to be better educated on trans medical issues.
But equally trans patients need to take some responsibility for being educated about their condition and ensuring clinicians have all relevant information.

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