Big update on Rape Crisis legal challenge

[IamSarah]

I know many of you have been waiting for an update so first of all thank you for your patience and the many messages of support.

I am suing Survivors Network, the Sussex Rape Crisis service, as it refused to offer a single sex women’s group in addition to the mixed sex women’s groups. By mixed sex I mean inclusive of any males who identify as women.

I’ve been granted anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the case and it was submitted to Brighton County Court today.

I am being represented by law firm Didlaw and my Barrister is Naomi Cunningham (Chair of Sex Matters). So far they have acted pro bono which I am incredibly grateful for as it has taken a lot of time. The team are confident I have a good case but this is unchartered territory for women’s rights.

Many of you have very kindly offered to be involved and help with gardening. I don’t think I’m allowed to share details on here so please go to my Twitter page http://twitter.com/SarahSurviving/ which has all the info in a pinned post.

Of you’re not on Twitter feel free to send me a DM for more information on how you can help the case. Any publicity you can give the crowd funder would really help.

Thank you everyone.

Sarah x

The very best of luck OP with this - very happy to donate.

I can't believe the lack of empathy of a certain poster in failing to understand women's needs for a single sex service in relation to a sexual assault.

Do you know, they could magically not spend time and funds on failing to support women by deciding to support women?

I know - strange idea - but run it up your flagpole and you might decide to salute it after all.

What exactly is your objection to a sexual violence support organisation providing a range of services, instead of not providing such a range?

Of all the people that have objected to what I'm doing (and there have been a few) not a single one has said if their daughter, sister or mother was raped they would tell her to 'reframe her trauma' and go to mixed sex therapy.

If it is appropriate to scold women to reframe their trauma and unlearn their prejudices and deal with situations they don't feel safe or comfortable in if they need services?

Then it must be appropriate to tell TW to reframe their trauma and unlearn their prejudices and deal with feeling unsafe and uncomfortable in male services, surely?

Or shall we agree that it's unacceptable to be this insensitive to any human and that this is why a range of different services need to exist so that everyone has access? Otherwise we're in for a fascinating discussion about why male feelings and safety and comfort and choice matters, but females don't in this brave new world where 'inclusion' is a favourite word thrown around like confetti.

This is such a good point. I really hope you win Sarah. Crossing all my fingers and toes.

I think the error on the part of Survivors' Network is that the management has not been overt about the fact that some of their group sessions are mixed sex and may have misled the women participants that they do not provide any female sex only group sessions. This is obviously indirect discrimination if not direct discrimination against the protected characteristic of the sex that is female, given that Survivors' Network provides a male sex only service.

Bump.

A linked thread ‘AIBU to think that women’s rape crisis therapy should NOT be mixed-sex?’ seems to be inaccessible. Is anyone else able to open it or has it joined the long list of deleted threads?

Difficult, I can still access it through my Watching list.

Thank you. I keep getting an error message. Glad it hasn’t been deleted. I’ll keep trying. Thanks.

I just posted on the thread so it hasn't been deleted, although I'm sure the TRAs are trying.

They've already been targeting my lawyers on Twitter with a big, angry pile on.

What are the actual arguments FOR female rape survivors not to have access to single sex support, when there are already groups for male and trans victims so nobody's being denied help?

Sarah, are you able to pm a link to the allotment please?

In answer to your question @Beowulfa I can copy the arguments that the RC sent me word for word.

It basically says men who identify as women are the most marginalised in society and women who have been raped must centre the feelings of trans people over their own and make them feel especially welcome:

From SN:

We recognise that the law allows organisations to legally exempt certain women (e.g., trans women) from women-only spaces and that some organisations have chosen to adopt this as their approach. However, for us, this approach would be problematic as we do not police gender and we do not define who is and is not a woman; we allow women to define this for themselves. Within allowing women to define this for themselves, it would feel incongruent to then run groups which specifically exclude a certain group of women, particularly where this group of women are amongst the most marginalised in society.

As such, we will not be running groups specifically for those AFAB as you have requested as it contravenes our principles to treat women as experts in themselves and their experiences, including how they define themselves.

We have previously run specific spaces for groups of women who struggle to access mainstream services (we refer to them as ‘specialist groups’) and they may be available for women from particular religious groups, women from the trans community, disabled women etc. Women who can access specialist groups are always able to access our mainstream services as well. We would never use this as an opportunity to limit attendance at these services as the overall aim of offering these separate spaces for under- represented groups is to enable them to feel able and welcomed to access the mainstream services.

Furthermore, we know from speaking to trans communities that trans women do not access women only services if they do not feel especially welcomed as they are not welcomed in so many spaces across their lives (either explicitly or in more subtle ways).

Have seen some of the pile-on on Twitter and I'm sorry you're having to deal with that Sarah. There is really no justification for providing every other group with rape crisis services but refusing to provide an additional single sex service apart from, frankly, a complete dismissal and hatred of women so the TRA/MRA/incels seem to be going for either deliberate ignorance or just pure nastiness.

We all stand behind you. The comments on the Crowdfunder show the shock that this is the situation women find themselves in.

Sending you strength.

Then it must be appropriate to tell TW to reframe their trauma and unlearn their prejudices and deal with feeling unsafe and uncomfortable in male services

Not general male services, which could well be cruel. But there is a trans service on offer.

it contravenes our principles to treat women as experts in themselves and their experiences

Whaaat?
I think that's just bad grammar. But given the current state of affairs, maybe letting women be their own experts really does contravene their principles.

Not general male services, which could well be cruel

How is this any crueller than telling female rape survivors to crack on with mixed sex groups or go without help? If it's ok to treat females like this, then it's ok to treat males like this too.

Are we back to the pre 19th century idea that females are this sub species that don't feel pain or emotion to the same extent that 'real' humans do? ie the male ones? And isn't this binary sex based thinking of one group who matter more and one group who matter less, and the defining feature of those groups is their biology? Which kind of totally fucks up the idea that the male people should be in the female provision because women, and no difference.

Classy.

And oh so very predictable.

Hopefully your lawyers aren't swayed by spat out dummies and tantrums that you shouldn't be allowed access to law because they don't want you to have it.

Bloody toddlers.

I found the info on where to garden very easily by Googling. 🪴

The Telegraph reports on this case, and another survivor:

"Another sexual abuse survivor in the area has claimed she was told by Jay Breslaw, the organisation’s CEO, to “reframe her boundaries” after she explained why access to a women-only service was important to her.
Ali, 41, said she was “furious” when she applied for one-to-one counselling at the service and was told that the centre could not guarantee her counsellor would be a biological woman.
“A massive issue for people who have been sexually abused or raped is your boundaries and your ability to consent,” she said, “and women can get triggered, distressed or can freeze in the space of a man in these situations.”
“It takes a woman a lot to contact a rape crisis centre in the first place. To be told you might turn up and there could be a male counsellor is appalling,” she added."

Reframe your BOUNDARIES?!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/03/rape-victim-sues-crisis-centre-transgender-woman-allowed-join/

has claimed she was told by Jay Breslaw, the organisation’s CEO, to “reframe her boundaries” after she explained why access to a women-only service was important to her.

'Reframe her boundaries'. To be convenient and compliant to male desires.

Fuck. That.

Enable your own oppression and abuse, women. If you have a problem, it's because you're expecting too much from men.

I'm appalling at gardening, but I got the watering can out. 🌻🌻

she was told by Jay Breslaw, the organisation’s CEO, to “reframe her boundaries”

A woman working in rape crisis, in that position, given the safeguarding implications, telling a rape victim to 'reframe her boundaries' -

that makes me sick to my stomach. Shame on you, Jay Breslaw. Shame on you.

Do these TRA apologists work off the same hymn sheet? It's just like the one in Scotland telling women to reframe their trauma

I suspect they think it means something really clever. Something existential, deep and meaningful. Complex, replete with psychobabble, or is that psychopomp?

When it obviously just means "Stop whining you stupid woman!" FFS!

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/supporting-a-survivor/

From Rape Crisis' 'supporting a survivor' page:

'Do be patient – and respect their boundaries

Many victims and survivors find it difficult to trust people because of their experiences – especially if they’ve been let down or not believed by others they’ve told in the past. So, if someone’s put their trust in you by telling you what happened to them, it’s important not to betray that trust. Be patient and try not to push them to tell you more – or to do anything else – before they’re ready.

Remember: there’s no timeline for ‘getting over’ sexual violence or abuse. And there’s no ‘to-do’ list that needs to be checked off. No one should be pressured into doing something before they are ready.'