Gender critical clothing

[DorotheaDiamond]

Can a business refuse you entry/service because you are wearing an adult human female t shirt? If they allow you In can they ask you / force you to leave? Does it make a difference if you’ve paid for entry?

dh is adamant that any private property can ask you to leave for any reason otherwise you are trespassing…I think he’s wrong.

thoughts?

I think they can. Much like a night club or casino not allowing hoodies and trainers.

Hoodie abs trainers is a dress code

If they allowed some slogan t shirts but not others are they discriminating ?

Is it that you can ask someone to leave but it can’t be motivated by discrimination e.g. asking someone to leave because they have a disability, due to race, sexuality etc so is covered by Equality Act?

I suppose it depends if other people can be offended. If some other customers are offended the owner of the business may want keep them happy.

I think that businesses can refuse service to anyone they chose.

Not saying I agree in this case.

I thought that pubs can refuse you entry or ask you to leave at the manager's/landlord's discretion (or whim). Generally they want customers though...

I understood it as we don't have a right to enter a shop or other premises. We can be refused entry for any reason, other than those covered in law. That's a technicality though because there can always be around. "We didn't ask him to leave/refuse entry because he was black, it was because he made other people feel uncomfortable/was too loud/not wearing the right clothes" etc

-* using the example of being black because I know of this happening a few years ago., before covid. Not comparing black people to GC clothing!!!

As GC beliefs are protected in law, how can they justify exclusion without being guilty of discrimination?

If I remember correctly it's already happened

If we're talking about licensed premises then I'm pretty sure that they can refuse service for any reason (though I suppose that they wouldn't get away with actually announcing "no blacks, no dogs, no Irish").

Would you even want to give them your money?

There was a thread about the British Museum paying for Stonewall training, one of the scenarios was this. I think they were supposed to ask for it to be covered up. What would happen if you refused, didnt have a cardi, stripped down to your bra? Could the BM kick you out? Adult human female isn't offensive. When the BNP was a thing, how would they have treated someone in a Union Jack tshirt (not equating gc with fascists btw).

They can theoretically ask anyone to leave but most businesses generally don't ( unless a crime is being committed) purely because they are a business who needs your custom

I know they can because it's happened.

If you mean is it something you can then seek compensation for I think you can but you'd have to have damage and I don't there really is any to speak of.

Do you want to get them fined for discrimination? It might be moot, not sure anyone's bothered yet?

Service providers must not discriminate against you on the basis of a protected characteristic. It has been established that the believe that sex I immutable is worthy of respect in a democratic society so excluding people the basis of a message declaring this belief would be unlawful discrimination. Just as you could not exclude someone from a pup for wearing a t-shirt that proclaims 'Jesus is Lord!' even in a Muslim dominated area.

We know people can commit murder because they do but that doesn't make it legal.

Damage includes to feelings and why should someone who discriminates not be fined? Would you say that if it was a pub excluding disabled people?

*If you mean is it something you can then seek compensation for I think you can but you'd have to have damage and I don't there really is any to speak of.

Do you want to get them fined for discrimination? It might be moot, not sure anyone's bothered yet?*

Would you say the same if they were excluding trans people?

A quick Google says a landlord can exclude people, but not if it's illegal. For instance if it's discriminatory, eg if they're female, or black, or any other protected characteristic.

And certain beliefs come under the protected characteristic category.

And belief that sex is immutable is specifically one of those.

Here in the UK, legislation is much the same. Any business does have the right to refuse to provide a service, however, it’s important to ensure this is not discriminatory. If a business refuses to serve a customer on discriminatory grounds, it is illegal. Discrimination includes issues such as gender, sexuality, ethnicity, religion or disability, which are all protected characteristics.

Although this specific source (Insurance), gets one of the protected characteristics wrong. I'm finding the same information from several sources.

I don't know if a landlord could get around it by saying they are excluding you, but not giving a reason. But if they say it's because of your T-shirt containing a belief that is protected, it appears that would be discriminatory.

Maintaining single sex spaces is only achievable on the basis that there are certain exceptions to discriminatory practice.

The default is 'no discrimination'.