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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Elon Musk / Twitter

95 replies

Circumferences · 26/04/2022 07:45

I'm just musing really, seeing as it's looking like Elon Musk is going to buy Twitter, whether this is good news for people with opinions like those on this board, or if it won't make any difference.

EM has strong "free speech" principles so he claims, but is currently based in the extremely problematic (from a GC pov) California. I understand he's moving the company or the factory anyway to Texas because workers rights barely exist there, but HQ would still be in California.

He'll probably keep all the same HQ staff on too, who are openly misogynistic and pro-paedo, who ban us for stating black isn't white and keep violent rape and death threats against us up because "they don't break talk guidelines"...

Anyone know what Elon Musk thinks of GC feminism?

OP posts:
YesThisItsWonderful · 27/04/2022 16:43

I hope it will be less misogynistic than before

Good luck with that

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/04/2022 16:49

Not sure how a charge of "misogyny" stacks up in this particular case.

These people have no "moral authority" over anyone.

beastlyslumber · 28/04/2022 16:52

These guys are knobs, but interesting insights into what's happening on the twits:

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/04/2022 16:55

My DP sent me that, was going to watch later. I also mostly think they are knobs, to be clear, but some of their podcasts are good on this issue.

RedToothBrush · 28/04/2022 17:43

Elon Musk is making a lot of noise about buying twitter, but he hasn't yet.

He is also not a champion of free speech particularly. Mainly because he doesn't like criticism himself and hasn't thought through the complexities of free speech internationally, when it comes to international politics and law.

The main problem is having so much power in one perhaps hands and how that effectively means he is a global policy maker because twitter policies then dictate how people are influenced.

If for example, Musk decides that all Indiana twitter users must follow the government laws in India, does this mean free speech is cut by the government, or does Musk somehow intend to bypass the government and force tweets which break Indian law. And how does he then keep twitter open in India if he goes against the government.

My main issue with Musk is he said he wanted to verify everyone. Now we've had that debate on MN about why that disadvantages women and takes then OUT of public debate, because they are then at risk of doxing or data leaks that may endanger their safety. So if you think verifying everyone is compatible with free speech, you don't understand the problem.

Equally verifying everyone means you can trace political opinions and various bits of data. This is EXTREMELY valuable, especially to a billionaire. It means you can potentially control the population as a whole. Thats not exactly compatible with free speech either.

One of the big debates over Mega Corporations with incomes bigger than nations and billionaires who have international ownership over social media is how this undermines democracy on a national level and how much power nations have to stop the political and economic agendas of such individuals and groups. This undermines democratic principles of free speech through the ballot box, because nations are almost over ruled by these global individuals and organisations.

Equally the flip is true, where a government is authoritarian, if Musk goes down the route of siding with the government rather than considering principles of free speech are only allowed in democracies. By giving the power to authoritirian governments the people lose, not gain their free speech.

I PERSONALLY think that twitter isn't balanced in its political makeup internally. I think its exceedingly anti-free speech. However, part of free speech in a democracy is ensuring the quality of speech and that people aren't harassed / intimidated into silence too. You need to ensure that minority voices aren't silenced by the abuse of others.

However, how you achieve a more balanced makeup is near impossible, because views differ on who and how you should protect from country to country. The UK offers legal protection to women on the basis of sex under the Equality Act but this isn't true in other countries.

Musk effectively could take away our freedom of speech by deciding the world by imposing his own morality on everyone else and deciding who was worthy of protections and who was not.

Otherwise you end up with people saying that its ok to post porn, violence, pro-anna, guides to suicide etc etc all in the name of free speech.

The problem I see is that twitter has an issue with freedom of speech.But it can't be fixed by a individual imposing his will. You have to think about things in terms of empowering those who are quiet and need more protections just as much as those who are more vocal.

Without going into a situation where people can express views via some sort of international democracy, you don't build an international consensus. But you can't this goes back to the pitfalls of one country dominating others and minorities being disadvantaged and individual disenfranchisement through a verification system.

I therefore think the REAL problem with twitter as it stands, isn't actually freedom of speech at all. It then comes down to how existing rules are enforced and how threats and abuse and racism isn't treated consistantly. Its less about free speech and more about implimentation of the existing rules really. And how it deals with and tackles disinformation. Who is a 'trusted source' and uses journalistic practice to a certain standard and who is just spouting opinion. There is a difference and making this clear by having a quality mark or standard, where certain accounts are highlighted in this way, would be better.

But then wtf do I know? I'm not a billionaire with an ego.

beastlyslumber · 28/04/2022 20:29

Elon Musk is making a lot of noise about buying twitter, but he hasn't yet.

No, he definitely has. They've made the deal.

beastlyslumber · 28/04/2022 20:34

He tweeted that his view of free speech is that which doesn't go beyond the law. So in the US, that's pretty much anything, but in other countries there would be more restrictions. I don't think twitter can be held responsible for what people say on the platform, though there have been moves in the past to say that twitter is a publisher who therefore does have responsibility. I think that's probably unworkable though.

I don't think this is so much about an individual imposing his will, so much as reinstating a principle. The podcast I shared is worth watching.

RedToothBrush · 28/04/2022 21:46

beastlyslumber · 28/04/2022 20:29

Elon Musk is making a lot of noise about buying twitter, but he hasn't yet.

No, he definitely has. They've made the deal.

They have agreed a deal.

Deal has not gone through yet.

Deal might yet collapse.

Fat ladies yet to have a big night out.

beastlyslumber · 28/04/2022 21:53

It would be incredible if it didn't go through. It's been agreed and signed on. So I'm not sure what would stop it. I expect Musk has shit hot lawyers and the deal will be iron clad.

I'm hopeful this will be a big move away from censorship on social media. I feel like if twitter stops trying to censor and manipulate information (Hunter Biden's laptop being probably the most egregious thing imo) then other s.m. will follow suit. Hope so, anyway.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 01:08

From what I've seen the Twitter senior team are pretty resigned to it going through and are aware it's the best deal for shareholders. Yes Musk could back out, but I don't see it happening.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 01:10

Musk effectively could take away our freedom of speech by deciding the world by imposing his own morality on everyone else and deciding who was worthy of protections and who was not.

That's exactly what happens there now, Red.

SpindleInTheWind · 29/04/2022 01:14

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 01:10

Musk effectively could take away our freedom of speech by deciding the world by imposing his own morality on everyone else and deciding who was worthy of protections and who was not.

That's exactly what happens there now, Red.

In my insomniac state I was just thinking the same thing.

I simply didn't realise before quite how powerful Gadd was.

ResisterRex · 29/04/2022 07:00

This episode - however it might play out - is certainly revealing. Now we learn the number of users has been incorrect:

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/28/twitter-faces-staff-walkout-musk-vows-upset-far-left-far-right/

"Twitter has admitted overstating its user numbers for three years as Elon Musk vowed to “upset far left and far right equally” in an overhaul of moderation policies.
Around 229m users were active on the social network during the first three months of 2022, Twitter revealed this week, an increase of 14m on the last three months of 2021.
But Twitter said it had been over-reporting the number of “monetisable daily active users” by about 1.5m for the last three years because of an "error".
The growth in active users suggests people who may have left Twitter amid accusations it had become left leaning politically may have returned to the platform after news of Mr Musk's takeover."

ScreamingMeMe · 29/04/2022 07:55

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 01:10

Musk effectively could take away our freedom of speech by deciding the world by imposing his own morality on everyone else and deciding who was worthy of protections and who was not.

That's exactly what happens there now, Red.

Exactly. See the Sam Barber thread on GC women getting banned for eff all.

ScreamingMeMe · 29/04/2022 07:59

Sam's thread. There are hundreds: some men but vast majority women. It's crazy.

twitter.com/SamBarber1910/status/1063250389791883264?s=20&t=DXMcjtgVJfIzCGglDmvyWg

ScreamingMeMe · 29/04/2022 08:30

But MAPs, people who post graphic porn and TRAs who make violent threats are given free reign.

beastlyslumber · 29/04/2022 08:31

Apparently twitter has even been manipulating the numbers of likes and follows on various accounts. Pink News dropped by about 750k followers overnight.

No suprise to people who have said for years that likes on JKR's famous "I stand with Maya" tweet kept disappearing. Now we know it's 100% true. Twitter mods and managers totally twisted everything they could to suit their narrative.

Wanderingowl · 29/04/2022 21:50

Elon posted this a few years ago and except that back in 08, I was standing side by side with the figure on the left, it sums up my feelings, tbh.

mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1519735033950470144/photo/1

Elon Musk / Twitter
Wanderingowl · 29/04/2022 22:04

Hours ago, not years.

God you think the new site would at least have an edit function.🙄

ResisterRex · 30/04/2022 18:19

It continues:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10770429/Furious-Twitter-staffers-slam-Elon-Musk-transphobic-hands.html

"Reached by DailyMail.com on Saturday morning, a Twitter spokeswoman declined to comment.

One employee at the meeting described Musk as anti-gay and anti-transgender, expressing fear that his ownership would hurt efforts to recruit new employees.

'What should we tell the LGTBQ community at recruiting conferences we're lined up to attend when they ask us why they should come work at Twitter when we just sold ourselves to an open homophobe and transphobe?' the staffer asked Dalana Brand, Twitter's chief people and diversity officer.

Brand diplomatically avoided agreeing with that assessment of Musk, responding: 'I cannot speak to Elon's personal feelings on these things. I can't speak to what he's done in his other companies, in terms of people's experiences.'

'Perhaps in the future we'll be able to have a conversation. That may be telling,' she added."

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