Gender Neutral Public Toilets in Bognor Regis

[Musomama1]

Hi,

I just wanted to get some advice, some dodgy public toilets near me are just about to get dodgier.

I found out this information from a doorstep question download for the Respect My Sex campaign. My local council, Arun District Council are doing a much needed referbishment but altering it to gender-neutral.

Now I think this discriminates against women. What do I do? Where do I start in opposing this? I've emailed all the town councillors and made contact with a local women's centre to raise awareness.

Thanks in advance.

I HATE mixed toilets, I think most women and girls do. I was on at a South Coast seaside place last year and nearly all the toilets were mixed, so I walked until I found a porta cabin with a Ladies sign..and a massive queue!
Honestly, if they get rid of all the Ladies, I will squat down behind a bush rather than use toilets with men there.

(Off topic but is anyone else reminded of the ladies' toilet scene from "Milkman" - saved by a women-only bog!)

In the old days even the entrances were separated so you didn't have that feeling of men hanging around outside.To me mixed-sex toilets feel less safe and less dignified and I'd avoid unless truly desperate especially if I was out on my own.

It's becoming more of an issue as I get older. Safer places to pee!

This. This is a fashion that exclusively benefits males.

What research has been done on how many females want this? Will find this accessible? Will just be excluded altogether?

And how many women will now just silently give up on trying to use the loo in public places unless absolutely bloody desperate?

It depends how they are done. The ones we have, proper brick build with sink, space, secure door, opening on to a busy road or the prom are so much safer than the old "blocks" with a row of toilets that aren't secure, flimsy doors and gaps at the top and bottom. OK a man's bum has sat there before you but as long as it's clean does it matter?

Honestly our new ones feel so much safer and more private that the old toilet blocks. They smell better as well.

If you feel ok with it then that's very nice for you.

What are we going to do for the women who aren't ok with it and never will be?

Some men don't like it either, my partner and teenage son for starters. They just want male facilities as that is still (thankfully) what we normally have when out.

That's their choice. I'm not talking about a shared block of toilets but modern, clean, private facilities. You don't have the noises and smells from other cubicles like in the old blocks, you don't walk into a block not knowing who is lurking in cubicles, you don't use the loo knowing that the door could easily be forced open. Literally the only issue is that a man has been in the space before you, a man can't enter after you, he can't be hiding in there like he could in a block.

I don't get the issue if they are done properly. The ones the OP has shown are an issue because of sharing the space but the ones I, and others, have talked about are different.

ancientgran the problem is you are healthy, the people around you are drug free and law abiding. And those toilets sound well ventilated and large.

If you are in an area of drug use (includes inside most schools), with people who have sex in toilets and people who feel ill and so go to the toilet and collapse (heart attack/drinks spiked/seizures), then your nice loos become very much more dangerous.

One statistic that always got me was that one pupil is raped in a British school, every school day. This was talked about in government 2016 and in a BBC article. As an ex teacher who has taught in many schools, as well as the why it’s the where. Obviously this makes toilet design extremely important and the fact that toilet doors have a gap at the bottom and are single sexed blocks are vital.

The issue is that you're ok with it - some women are ok with mixed sex cubicles with gaps under the door and getting undressed in mixed sex changing rooms, and that's great for them - but other women are not, and are repeatedly sharing here that they are not comfortable, do not want this as a solution, and will avoid using those facilities.

Those women are entitled to inclusion and accessibility too. Not to be told either shut up and put up, or exclude.

Because frankly if that's an acceptable thing to say then the quicker, easier answer is that male people can also make the choice to deal with male facilities regardless of how they identify or just go without provision. If it's ok to say that to females then it's ok to say that to males too, isn't it? Because females aren't some lower class of human it's ok to treat less favourably. And those males are the reason for females losing the provision they want, prefer, and which all females find accessible.

I'm sorry but you are wrong on several issues.

I'm not healthy, waiting for results from tests at heart and lunch unit I had on Wednesday.
I live in a seaside resort with well known drug problems, used to see it all the time in the toilet blocks.
If people are having sex in a cubicle in the old toilet blocks I would hear it in the new brick built secure toilets I wouldn't.
The toilets have a timer, doors open outwards and after a certain time, think it might be 15 minutes the door opens so you are more likely to be spotted as the toilets open onto the pavement or the prom and lots of people passing by.
In schools the toilet blocks were well known as places where bullying happened. I'd much prefer for my GC that they were in a private toilet that opened onto a corridor.

I wasn't talking about facilities where people would be in a shared changing area or in a cubicle with gaps and other people (I don't actually want other women watching me as much as I don't want men doing it, I like privacy) I'm talking about a brick built individual unit with a very secure door.

I think you are totally missing the point that these toilets are safer for women, no walking into a toilet block where you don't know who is lurking.

I'm not missing the point thanks. I think it was this thread where early on I mentioned walking into what USED to be separate sex toilets and have now been turned mixed sex with a very dear male friend who I've known most of my adult life.

We both realised it had been turned mixed sex. We were both embarrassed and uncomfortable, we both headed to opposite ends of the room and if I had been able, I would have left and not used the toilet at all. I was desperate so I rushed and escaped asap. These are full block floor to ceiling units such as you describe.

Both I and my friend disliked them, were uncomfortable, were less happy and found them less accessible than previous single sex provision, and I will avoid going there unless absolutely desperate. So it's not a win in any way, it's a drop in accessibility for some. I'm delighted you find it fine, but not everyone is ok with this, this does not work for all. And the point of inclusion and accessibility is solutions that work for all.

Which would be single sex provision, PLUS a mixed sex provision.

The ones we have, proper brick build with sink, space, secure door, opening on to a busy road or the prom are so much safer than the old "blocks" with a row of toilets that aren't secure, flimsy doors and gaps at the top and bottom. OK a man's bum has sat there before you but as long as it's clean does it matter?

I'm not against it on principal, I just haven't seen one that was "done properly" yet, not to the point of being better than the old single sex ones. That includes fully individual ones in my last workplace. The individual mixed sex ones on my floor were modern and clean and sperate but it was still more comfortable to go down three storeys to the old-style ladies' on the ground floor.

ancientgran luckily nothing bad happens in less than 15 mins then and that if there was something bad happening, you luckily can’t hear it now.

But I just don’t want to use the same toilets as strange males ( or any males if possible which is a bit difficult in my house!) We HAD single sex toilets, so why can’t we continue to have them? Why should that be taken away since the vast majority of females prefer them?
Why isn’t “ we don’t want to” enough of a reason to say no?
I mean, I could mention the hidden camera situation, or sexual assault or safe spaces or little girls using the same toilets as grown men, but really, why should we have to change something we are legally allowed to have?

Because a very small group of males don't want females to have it, basically.

And that they get to decide what females may have, and are listened to when females are not?

Well there's the essence of this problem in a nutshell.

Actually you are because I've said the sort of mixed toilets you are talking about aren't safe. I was not talking about toilets where you walk into a mixed room. The door to each toilet opens from the street, a man or a woman might put their money in the slot and open that door but they won't be doing it together.

The issue with privacy and accessibility with the toilets I described is they are big enough for people to take a buggy and children in with them, they are big enough for wheelchairs.

They are totally private.

But why should you be able to say we can't have safe private facilities instead of toilet blocks which are notoriously unsafe?

It would be lovely if we all had our own toilet everywhere we went that no strange man or woman have ever used before us but that can't happen can it. There are plenty of women I wouldn't really want to share a toilet with, plenty of men are clean and use the facilities properly and are no issue to anyone.

No more issues with worrying about being out with young sons and them either offending women or going into an unsafe place (same with dads out with little daughters.)

No more walking into a toilet block only two see a couple of drug addicts injecting each other and yes that does happen.

The only little girls using these facilities at the same time as a grown man will be the ones in there with their dads.

15 minutes and then the door is open to a public place.

You know that people have died in a quiet toilet block because no one saw them for hours? Quiet time of night, no one else in there or no one notices that locked cubicle at the end has been occupied for 15,30,60 minutes?

You can believe what you like but we have had these toilets for almost a year and no incidents, no problems, some people worried originally but a total non issue now and no one asking to go back.

It is so funny that people who won't even contemplate using these facilities tell people with actual experience of them that they are wrong.

I hate mixed sex toilets especially full length, enclosed cubicles. I find them claustrophobic and smelly.

ancientgran that’s very good but lucky that you know so much about these toilets to know they have worked so well. Do you know the cleaners?
Does the door swing/slide wide open after 15 minutes? If so, Would you be able to see someone in distress or on the floor? Are you sure there have been no drug needles left or ‘evidence’ of sexual activity? I am not a gran nor ancient but have thought now about my experiences. My actual experience is that I have seen spilled condoms and white powder in public loos in parks. Years ago my friends and I saw a foot sticking out of a toilet door gap in the ladies loos of a nightclub and we hoisted our lightest friend over the top of the door to open it from the inside. The girl had choked on vomit and was unconscious so we called an ambulance. Don’t know if it was too much drinks or spiking. Don’t know what happened to her. In the last few years an elderly man died in the singular supermarket toilet near us that opens onto the public foyer - he was left all day and night, unnoticed. The door was full length and locked from the inside and obviously someone had not checked it. As a teacher, I was in a block that had one disabled toilet, opening onto the corridor. It was barely used. I was ‘flooding’ and needed it quick. Whilst in there, the door was kicked, rattled and there were jeers about periods. In fact I waited until more jeers before I opened the door quickly and really told the Year 7 boys off. They were already pretending to choke on ‘smells’ so shocked to see a teacher walk out. I had a chuckle to myself about that one but could see why girls wouldn’t use it. I have also been the teacher to check the girls and boys loos when the fire alarm goes off. With toilet door gaps you can do a sweep in seconds. I honestly have never thought what I’d do if the disabled loo was locked in this event as I don’t have the key. So a line of enclosed toilets on every floor will take a lot longer. What I am most concerned though is the future as my child has developed epilepsy and has auras beforehand where she feels ill and can vomit do she heads to the nearest loo. There are over half a million people with epilepsy in this country. And in future for the drug use and sexual assaults and illnesses in toilets that are not as fabulously and luckily located and thought out as yours (which will be 99.5% and refurbishments) are justified on the basis of reports of ‘well it’s great for me’ based on the best of the best. You have to always think of the most vulnerable in the most vulnerable situations.

oh and last actual experience, as a teenager, I got trapped in one of these tarsus-like toilets where it had a sliding automatic door - was so embarrassing rather than scary and my mum was outside so we got help quickly from a market trader who told us he was ‘good at this now’ (breaking the hydraulics). We didn’t have phones back then but personally I would check if you can get a phone signal if the door has complicated electrics. Those swanky stand alone loos aren’t there anymore.

I am not trying to have a go at you but you aren’t looking at the bigger picture as your experience cannot (unfortunately) be extrapolated.

Lots of spelling mistakes there but I think you get the drift. Tardis-like toilets btw!