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Original poster

Training day for paediatricians

26 replies

Juggins2 · 19/04/2022 16:29

I recently attended a training day for paediatricians on zoom. One of the talks was on lgbtqia+ issues and given by a paediatrician working mainly in a and e. It was very much presented as #bekind, but also included misrepresenting suicide statistics and implied affirmation and pronouns (and by implication puberty blockers and hormones) as being The Answer. I was so angry I was shaking.

We are paediatricians, we should be thinking about safeguarding vulnerable children and not pushing them to lifelong medical care with conflicting evidence of worse mental health.

There were about 80 or so of my colleagues on the zoom session and there was just me as the lone voice highlighting the Cass interim report and poor outcomes /complications /lack of follow up, and awful CQC report on GIDS. As paediatricians we need to First Do No Harm. It was so depressing to be the lone voice speaking up for this in the room.

There is going to be a long journey to go on to get back to holistic care, when even the majority of paediatricians are captured by the ideology of rushing to affirm kids with gender dysphoria.

I went a bit mad on the chat box and was then invited to speak at the end by the chair as a counter argument. I tried my best but wasn't prepared. I was criticised for not #beingkind by the most vocal colleagues but also the chat box was interesting with others saying they weren't aware of the other side of the story. Transgender trend were dismissed as a cult by one colleague, I pointed out their motto of standing for evidence based healthcare for gender dysphoria and I felt they deserved to be heard and not dismissed.

Any other medics /nurses out there come across anything similar?

Keep fighting the good fight everyone x

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 19/04/2022 16:34

Thank you. You’re heroic.

Original poster
Juggins2 · 19/04/2022 16:37

Thanks tabby that means so much. I've seen all your work doing the typing up of mayas case, and just general common sense comments at all times, so thank you for all you do too.

I'm definitely out as gender critical at work now!!!

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 19/04/2022 16:39

And thank you Juggins. Flowers

FatFucker · 19/04/2022 16:41

Thank you juggins

ChateauMargaux · 19/04/2022 16:47

Thank you @juggins2. Repeat as much as you need to... we need good quality evidence before we embark on a course that leads to long term implications for individuals. If the start of that journey is affirming gender dysphoria, we need to be sure that we are not doing more harm than good.

JoodyBlue · 19/04/2022 16:56

Well done @Juggins2. It is lonely being the person standing up to support children. But the objective of first do no harm should be paramount in medicine. It should be obvious to all of your 80 colleagues. I would put money on many agreeing with you priviately and you have probably raised the consciousness of many others. Are you able to follow up with the paediatrician who gave the talk and perhaps put a view to balance, stating that affirmation is not always/usually the "kind" option.

Original poster
Juggins2 · 19/04/2022 17:15

@Helleofabore

For you Juggins!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4533706-Sajid-Javid-on-GIDS-overly-affirmative-bordering-on-ideological

Hope this helps.

I'd seen that one and commented! Very very very happy to see the health sec having common sense.

I have always respected Dr Cass 's skills as leader of RCPCH (unlike Russel Viner who was paeds endocrine involved at GIDS and involved in many years delay to publish outcomes) so I am v glad she's leading the review.

It's emotional feeling powerless to change things quickly, and to be at risk of personal and professional consequences for speaking out. Thanks all for the support.

OP posts:
Blogblogblogblog · 19/04/2022 17:18

This looks a good website for medical professionals:
segm.org/

I think there’s a U.K. one too but can’t remember what it’s called.

Tortoise3 · 19/04/2022 17:32

I am an allied health professional in the NHS. I am trying to raise the Cass interim report with my Trust and my professional organisation but it is difficult. I've written an article on the report from a safeguarding angle for my professional magazine but haven't heard back from them and doubt they will publish it. I also asked if we could discuss treating gender nonconforming children from a safeguarding perspective in safeguarding supervision, but this wasn't welcomed. I think many health professionals are just afraid to touch this topic.

Lottapianos · 19/04/2022 17:37

Bloody well done you. I'm a healthcare professional and I don't think I would have had the guts to say what you did in that context

Toddlerteaplease · 19/04/2022 17:46

I'm a paediatric nurse and we had some mental health training that very much pushed this as well. I was really uncomfortable about it. I think other people were as well. But fortunately none of it has filtered down to the wards.

Toddlerteaplease · 19/04/2022 17:48

I didn't have the guts to say anything as I was to worried about possibly getting into trouble for disagreeing. The trainer was a bit scary!

zafferana · 19/04/2022 18:02

Thank you for speaking up and please send an email to Sajid Javid about this @Juggins2. He and his dept may not be aware that this is happening and it's so worrying that medical professionals have been captured to this degree.

Parents and the public at large expect medics to be well-informed, to follow guidance, the law and, above all when treating children, safeguarding rules. That the 'affirmation only' model is being shoved down paediatricians' throats as part of official training is shocking.

zafferana · 19/04/2022 18:03

Here is Sajid Javid's contact information: members.parliament.uk/member/3945/contact

MsGoodenough · 19/04/2022 18:15

It's terrifying that, despite the ongoing Cass review, damning CQC report, Sonia Appleby case etc, the overarching narrative is still #behind, affirmation only etc. Thank you OP for being brave and raising this. I do the same as a teacher and it is never easy.

alreadytaken · 19/04/2022 18:25

For the first time in my life I'm ashamed of the NHS. If medicine is not evidence based then it is just quakery - and the NHS has gone quackers. I'm grateful to anyone who still retains the sense they were born with.

Melroses · 19/04/2022 18:35

Thank you so much to all those who speak up who are in places that matter. Your voices carry more weight with people like Javid and Baroness Nicholson because it gives them something they can work with. Please contact them if you can.

ChopinBoard · 19/04/2022 18:54

Well done and thank you, op. You are genuinely stunning and brave! I guarantee there will have been normies in the audience who knew nothing about the issue and will now seek the alternative view because you have informed them that it exists. You are doing the goddess' work! Flowers

WarriorN · 19/04/2022 19:24

Thank you so much OP for speaking out.

I do know of gps who are concerned and don't believe any of it but are generally too worn down by workload and their own kids to spend a lot of time on this.

If this happens again, alongside Cass, there's all the info coming from Sweden as well as Anderson and Bowers (TW psych and the surgeon involved with Jazz Jennings) who are members of WPATH and becoming clearly v concerned about ROGD etc.

(Nb WPATH are not an officially recognised body in the way many medical bodies are. They're a slightly different status, not sure of the terminology.)

The Swedish documentaries trans trains are worth a watch/ good to recommend.

There are also a few endocrinologists speaking out; unfortunately I can't remember the name of the key one.

Lisa Littman's research too.

WarriorN · 19/04/2022 19:25

@Melroses

Thank you so much to all those who speak up who are in places that matter. Your voices carry more weight with people like Javid and Baroness Nicholson because it gives them something they can work with. Please contact them if you can.

I absolutely second this. The baroness will answer you quickly

nocoolnamesleft · 19/04/2022 20:22

Gosh you're brave. But you're not the only paediatrician with concerns.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/04/2022 21:11

Well done. It's not easy to speak on these topics without preparation and when it's a racing certainty that you're facing a hostile audience.

I salute your courage.

Faffertea · 19/04/2022 23:20

Well done for speaking out.
I’m a GP and posted a thread recently about how I feel I’m failing by not speaking out more or doing more while currently trying to care for 3 teenagers all identifying as trans for different reasons and trying to encourage them (and those around them) to think about what they’re feeling and why without being labelled transphobic.

I posted in support of JKR last summer when she wrote her essay on a women’s doctors group I’m in and was shocked by some of the responses I got although I also got a number of messages directly from women in support of what I said but who didn’t want to say so publicly.

It’s just so messed up that rational, educated people who routinely critique practice and latest developments just totally lose their minds on this.

But you’re not alone in this and I do genuinely feel at least with the Cass report etc we might be starting to turn this around.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/04/2022 23:25

I admire Margaret McCartney (GP) and Susan Bewley (emeritus obstetrician) amongst others for the stance they've adopted and their various recent publications (BMJ and elsewhere).

Some threads available if this is put into a search engine:

site:mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights mccartney bewley