Young TRA women and their motivations

[LittleWhingingWoman]

So I don't understand where young women in particular left their lived understanding of men behind in favour of drinking the "Be Kind" potion.

Have they never experienced sexism? I'd find that hard to believe. Do they think if a man puts a skirt on he magically becomes a girl?
It's almost like they don't grasp what is going to happen to them. Do they think that TW are their allies?

It's incredibly bizarre.

I doubt they care, they want to be seen to be in with the incrowd, and cool and of course insta popular!

Because their Trans friend is nice
Because they are fortunate enough not to have experienced abuse/assault (and hopefully they never will)
Limited life experience

Overall... they are naive.

I think different people experience different sorts of and levels of sexism. Most of the TRA women I’ve seen are: white, middle class, educated, earning, and they at least seem to believe men find them attractive. Being “woke” is like paying a liberal toll. It’s a social signifier that sorts the ‘in’ people from the ‘out’ people. They don’t necessarily think about the women who don’t have the same privileges, and they don’t necessarily think their own privilege might be transient.

Because they haven't woken up to the level of sexism and mysogyny inherent in society.

I think most women only realise the extent as they mature.

A lot of girls understand very well what it's like to be excluded from the 'in crowd' and are just as likely to experience bullying by other girls as from boys. They may have male friends who were bullied for being gay. They don't like seeing people excluded or judged for the way they look.

I can disagree with them about sex and gender while still understanding this viewpoint. It's not rocket science, surely.

I think a lot of sexism only really becomes apparent after childbirth. I went through school/university/ early career feeling that I was on a par with my male peers. It's an age when you want to be seen to be attractive to men so you 'people please' a bit.

It was only after I gave birth, tried to juggle motherhood/ work/ relationship that I realised how deluded I'd been and how trapped I was.

Naivety - a complete lack of understanding about the realities of life.

I find it so hard to watch these young women attacking other women so viciously. Some of the most rabid TRAs I have come across has been young women. I think they perceive that most 'terfs' are of their mother's generation (the younger one tend to keep quiet about their GC beliefs) so want to differentiate themselves as cool girls. I know they are young but I find it unforgivable, the way some of them round on GC women with such spite. I only hope they will learn.

I think some don’t believe or want to face up to the misogynistic nature of the TRA movement. Fingers in ears kind of stuff.

@Whippet

I think a lot of sexism only really becomes apparent after childbirth. I went through school/university/ early career feeling that I was on a par with my male peers. It's an age when you want to be seen to be attractive to men so you 'people please' a bit.

It was only after I gave birth, tried to juggle motherhood/ work/ relationship that I realised how deluded I'd been and how trapped I was.

That might be true for you, but not for everyone. I’m in a group for childfree women and we regularly discuss feminism and how sexism affects us as childfree women and how it affects mothers in regards to the support that we can offer to mothers who are our friends, family, colleagues and within our communities.

@Musomama1

Because they haven't woken up to the level of sexism and mysogyny inherent in society.

I think most women only realise the extent as they mature.

This

I think the sense of belonging that comes with being in these groups is very important.

A young person, finds themselves in college or uninor whatever, their highschool friends have vanished, their parents and siblings are 2 hours away.

They do what is necessary. They seek out groups, friends, chosen family. It could be the meet trans rights campaigners and fall in there. It could be extinction rebellion and fall in there. It could be save the pygmy Goats and they fall in there. It could be some TV show or anime fandom and they fall in there. Hell, it could be organised religion. Etc.

Lonely people gravitate toward each other and orbit one another and it emboldens members to push more extreme stances. Others don't want to be ousted and lonely so they go along with the extremes and it builds.

It goes from 1 person saying the earth is flat.. to 5 people believing the earth is flat... To a convention for 100 people saying the earth is flat.. and there's a glass dome... To 500 people believing the earth is flat and there's a glass dome... To 5000 people believing the earth is flat, there's a glass dome and Antarctica is off limits because government hide stuff there... So on and so on.

(That's what I think anyway. Based on zero but what I've seen)

Many young women (in my expereince) believe the narrative that men (esp gender non conforming men) are vulnerable and oppressed. They feel hugely compassionate towards them. They want to protect them from other men, knowing only too well what some men can behave like.

I know am awful lot of women, of all ages, who perceive men to be slightly ineffectual and a bit hapless, whereas they see women as strong and capable - eg believing men are incapable of using domestic appliances and cooking their own meals whilst believing women can turn their hand to anything they want.

It's an odd phenomenon.

Most of the TRA women I know are older! Many are mothers.

I found Jonathan Haidt's book on moral psychology helpful on this. It's called The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.

I think the care/harm foundation comes into play (for the ones acting poorly, but in good faith). That said, I don't really understand why they are ok harming women in the process of demonstrating care for men.

righteousmind.com/

whereas they see women as strong and capable - eg believing men are incapable of using domestic appliances and cooking their own meals

Definitely - all while failing to see how the same men appear to do their actual jobs and make headway in their careers despite being so hapless. It takes them some time to wake up to the fact that many men simply decide what is important to them to be good at and act accordingly.

Then you’ve got the belief, often passed on by older women, that these men just need to be ‘trained’…

Our culture's obsession with youth and fear of aging makes these young women slightly loathe us because they don't want to be old...but because they know aging is inevitable, they are fighting it by fighting us. Once they realize we have their backs, and patriarchy doesn't, they will see the elephant in the room.

From my interactions with a few young feminist who are very TRA: They believe that transgender people are the most oppressed of all groups and they also believe that women's rights have been completely won in the West (one said that she understood we wanted to celebrate a bit longer but the needs of the trans children necessitate erasing the names for the female sex).

I also suspect that just like many other people (most people), this group has never thought these things through.

They assume that trans rights can be added to the pile without disturbing anything else in the rights pile, though it is hard to hold on to that view now that it is clear which group's rights will be removed from the rights pile to make space for the trans demands of rights.

What I dont get in all this is that the number of true believers (TWAW and the rest) must be vanishingly small. Its like a small self appointed elite rocked up and said the equivalent of the earth being flat and everyone goes "yeah, ok, of course it is". WTF?

Having been a young TRA I can give a bit of insight. It's a genuine belief that trans rights are an extension of LGBT rights. It's not seeing the toxicity in trans activism. It's thinking that any criticism of trans ideology is bigoted. It's truly believing that GC feminism is transphobic.

@SapphosRock

Having been a young TRA I can give a bit of insight. It's a genuine belief that trans rights are an extension of LGBT rights. It's not seeing the toxicity in trans activism. It's thinking that any criticism of trans ideology is bigoted. It's truly believing that GC feminism is transphobic.

Some of my extended kin do see it this way, i.e., that this is no different from the fight for gay rights. But it is different, because gay rights didn't take away from anyone else's rights or require that I can no longer call myself a woman (given that I have no gender identity not based on my sex).

I think at least some of it is a moralistic power trip. Certainly in our society there are and have been some women who seem to appoint themselves the arbiter of moral correctness and gain a lot of satisfaction in trying to impose that on other people, and exclude those who don't conform.

And they are often True Believers.

I am also fed up with being talked over by young TW when I’m in gender forums for example,
I have sat among groups of natal women being drowned out by the voice of one young, never silent,TW
She speaks on everything - and anything she doesn’t speak on ‘shouldn’t be tabled as it is anti trans’ - like menopause for instance

I think we need to collectively awaken

They're told it's the right way to think and don't question it because that would be wrong. Disdain and hateful names are given to those who do question, and it's perceived that the only ones against it are 'privileged white Karens.' Women's equality isn't on-trend so it's not seen as a priority - there's more focus on entitled women needing to be kind. Also, statements such as "hormones remove all physical differences" are treated as fact.

In my experience from being at uni not too long ago and having TRA student siblings.

I think the accusations of being a Nazi and comparisons to racism scare a lot of people.

Most decent people are horrified at the thought of being racist and TRAs insist that sex segregation is as regressive as racial segregation.

Of course it's not but nobody wants to be on the wrong side of history.