The word 'woman' is misogynistic, racist and transphobic, apparently.

[notwhatineednow]

From one of the podcasts from "The Family Sex show".

This is from one of the (I assume pretty young) contributors.
Such muddled thinking, although the anti-woman feeling is clear. Who is teaching our young people this shit? Be a 'girl' or a 'lady' as it's more fun than 'woman' like those evil old TERFs.

My 12 year old niece reckons the word "female" is transphobic. This kind of thinking is in schools.

Woman

It’s like wearing a pair of jeans right. They look fine, because they are tucked underneath a top, but as soon as you lift up the top, they aren’t really done up properly or they’re rolling down. Or they’re fine when you’re stood up, but as soon as you have to be in them for a long period of time - like sat down at a restaurant or something - they just dig in. They really restrict your enjoyment because all you can think about is how you wish you’d spoken up before and gone back and got changed. And that’s how I feel when someone calls me a woman, that I just want to go back and put on something more comfortable.

I’ve not been misgendered… I know, for myself that ‘woman’ is mostly right, I just want some space for that to be more flexible. That’s why I prefer other words, like girl or lady even.. (laughs) Partly because they’re funny and partly because for me, they leave more room for the imagination. For the grey space where I feel like I exist more.

The word ‘woman’ feels so loaded with so many connotations that I don’t want anything to do with. I have seen too many women using that word as a disguise for violence. Google the term ‘TERF’ if you haven’t done so already - trans exclusionary radical feminism. Not very radical as far as I’m concerned.

And they use the word woman to continue to perpetrate misogyny or racism or transphobia, or all of the above. As a result, that word sort of feels tainted for me by other things that I want absolutely nothing to do with. I feel like identifying as a woman makes me complicit in these super shit things.

I was trying really hard to find this Instagram template, you know one of those things you put on your story and, I don’t know, insert a gif to represent your star sign or favourite pasta shape or sex position or some shit. And a little while ago, there was this one which I can’t now find for the life of me, that had a bunch of gendered words. Some were super specific like dyke or fag, that people have reclaimed for their identity, and some were more general like guys or dude, and basically you could tick and cross the words which people could use in reference to you. I fill in so many forms where I have to define my sex and my gender - and those are two very different things - and I think it would be a lot easier and more inclusive if maybe alongside this we could have an Instagram template instead. Or something like it; where you could choose which words you did or didn’t want to be used, about you.

So, if I could find it, there are lots of words I would circle or put some sparkly GIF on, but – for now at least - the word woman gets a big cross from me.

I know that if I am convinced of something I can keep it to myself - let others have their approach.
This is tedious waffling Bollocks.
I have no idea why people who express these opinions are said to be woke but then I suppose its better than DAS. (Dumb and Stupid).

Where does this idea that 'you could choose which words you did or didn’t want to be used, about you.' come from?

Why does anyone feel entitled to tell others how to speak about them, unless in doing so they're breaking the law? What is this relentless need to control others' speech? It is so sinister, especially to someone who grew up in Soviet Union. I genuinely didn't think I'd ever see this level of intolerance in the West, it's shocking.

@Artichokeleaves

Teenage girls are getting the message that there's something wrong with the word woman.

but only if you're female. If you're male then calling yourself a woman is a wonderful thing to be celebrated.

Likewise calling yourself a 'lesbian' if you're female is now naughty and implies you're one of those rotten homosexuals who think they're entitled to have a sexuality of their own won't do hetero sex for male benefit. Naice girls call themselves queer, or pan and signal their purity that way. But if you're male and call yourself lesbian? Well that's wonderful!

Anyone else seeing the bleeding obvious here?

This really rather disturbingly drenched in ideology person was involved in a theatre show to drench other children. Thank God the show has been cancelled.

Accurate, and depressing as fuck .

where you could choose which words you did or didn’t want to be used, about you.

We can't control what people think/say about us, and it's none of our business.

Forced language is a tool of propaganda

It seems like there is a whole lot of misunderstanding on their part about what people who use the term women about themselves (i.e., us) actually mean by it - do they think we are automatically agreeing to and accepting the inequalities and treatment that comes with it? that we like it? that we follow the stereotypes and roles of the past because we want to? And they are special somehow because they have a female body but they don't want the stereotypes or the unequal treatment or whatever. Do they not realise that is what we have been fighting for all along, the right to break out of those stereotypes without having to call yourself a different sex?!

Sometimes I think the teens who are feeling confused/fluid/non-binary are in fact on the same side as the Terfs, really, just using different language to say the same things. The adult men who want to transition, however, aren't always. Some of them might be - the ones who genuinely just want to be able to wear skirts and make-up and do whatever other non-stereotypically masculine things they want to do - but others have a different and misogynistic motivation. And lumping them altogether seems to conflate two very different things. And the teenagers have somehow been convinced they should be on the side of the tRAs to achieve their goal when really they should be on the side of the terfs, as that is what will let them break out of the gender stereotypes they feel oppressed by.

they use the word woman to continue to perpetrate misogyny or racism or transphobia

Jesus wept. What have they sold you? They've convinced us that our own straightforward existence is unacceptable.

I feel like identifying as a woman makes me complicit in these super shit things.

"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." ― Malcolm X

Also - plenty of reasonably intelligent people believe this stuff. They might be very confused or mistaken, but not necessarily stupid.

It seems like there is a whole lot of misunderstanding on their part about what people who use the term women about themselves (i.e., us) actually mean by it

Yes, I totally agree.

Do they not realise that is what we have been fighting for all along, the right to break out of those stereotypes without having to call yourself a different sex?!

No, I don't think they do.

I've come across several young people on social media who confuse feminists with conservatives and think we're a bunch of old women who are fighting to uphold gender stereotypes, that we don't want to lose ownership of "femininity".

It's breathtakingly ignorant! But this stuff is being peddled to them.

It's partly, also, that in America (which is where a lot of this comes from) there isn't really much of a left wing, feminist critique. The people opposing trans rights loudly are generally right wing conservatives - it's much more split down party lines.

Lots of people see this as an argument with two sides, and are unaware of how a feminist critique of gender ideology is different from a conservative critique.

Are they telling kids this in school?

@mrziggycoco

Are they telling kids this in school?

I haven't heard of this being said in schools specifically. But when you have the likes of Allsorts going into school telling DC that trans people are born trans and everyone has a gender identity, it legitimises this stuff online also.

If a child knows their school backs gender ideology, then sees people who believe in gender ideology online coming out with this kind of stuff, it gives it credibility it doesn't deserve IMO.

Argh! Woman is a GREAT word! I'm sorry that her life experiences have left her with a negative connotation with the word, but to infantilize yourself with 'girl' is really odd.

To then make claims of misogyny and racism... FFS 🤬

When I think on the word woman, the first thing that comes to my mind is Phenomenal Woman by Maya Angelou. Here's the first verse to cheer you all up this Easter Monday 😘

Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I’m not cute or built to suit a fashion model’s size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I’m telling lies.
I say,
It’s in the reach of my arms,
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I’m a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That’s me.

Recording of Maya Angelou and another of Helena Bonham-Carter reading Phenomenal Woman.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4359887-Maya-Angelou-Reading-Phenomenal-Woman

@notwhatineednow Surely schools are the places to correct this, along with medical professionals, as truth tellers who we trust with our children?

The level of internalised misogyny there is actually very upsetting. ‘Woman’ doesn’t make me feel complicit in the patriarchy because it’s MY word that I use about MYSELF. For me it doesn’t mean femininity or similar, it just means I (almost definitely) don’t have a Y chromosome.

But it also means being part of a class whose members have a great historical tradition of overcoming adversity and proving themselves, and standing up for themselves against all the nonsense spread about them. And I like that too.

So much navel gazing.

Honestly, I sometimes think we should bring back national service.

*Maybe I'm all. And that’s mine to decide. I decide how I am identified.
And ‘All’ is mine. And it means you could say:
All identifies as she/him and he/them, but they mainly want you to address her, as equal.

It's that simple.*

If that’s simple, I’d hate to think what complicated looks like.

Amazing how quickly this has become a thing that so many are devoting such a great amount of time and energy to contemplate. And how it’s taken as read that it’s entirely reasonable to expect that others will diligently attend to every twist and turn in your identity journey.

God, who on earth has the time to navel gaze to this degree?! Can't believe I wasted 2.5mina of my life reading that. I could have achieved so many womanly things during that time such as being grateful for my life and my health, being with my children, feeling the sun on my face and cuddling my dog.

Also, how on earth can using the word woman contribute to misogyny Have I missed something here?

Who has the fucking time and head space to think like this? It doesn't even make sense.

Ps thank you for the wonderful Maya Angelou poem! I feel that should be the anthem of Mumsnet.

@AngelicaElizaAndPeggy

Ps thank you for the wonderful Maya Angelou poem! I feel that should be the anthem of Mumsnet.

Let her read it to you, it's such an experience and a splendid uplift every time that I need one.

What is wrong with woman?

What utter self loathing from that podcast.

[quote EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]Recording of Maya Angelou and another of Helena Bonham-Carter reading Phenomenal Woman.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4359887-Maya-Angelou-Reading-Phenomenal-Woman[/quote]
Wonderful, thank you!

So, presumably, considering that "transwomen are women", this also means that any person identifying as a transwoman is also misogynistic, racist and transphobic? Is the writer of that waffle willing to tell them that?

Are transwomen to be informed that they now have to refer to themselves as transgirls or transladies only?

So many reactions to that rubbish going through my head, but I'll try to restrict myself to just asking if they could maybe consider volunteering for some charity work, litter picking in the park or seeing if their neighbours have any leaves to sweep up? You know: something.... useful and productive to do with their time?

I wonder if animals spend countless hours of their lives anxiously fretting over whether they should actually be a cat, dog, horse, sheep or whatever - whilst continuing to live their lives happily doing all the same basic, instinctive stuff as all of the other cats/dogs/horses/sheep all the day long. I'm guessing not; and yet WE are supposed to be the superior intelligent ones....

Agree about the internalised misogyny. Also ageism.

Social media, ruled by porn-addled incels with anime avatars has declared the word woman, when used to mean female people, as unfashionable as a pair of sensible sandals. Ugh. Fugly and pointless because it doesn't feed their fetish fantasies. Females who get the seal of their approval must call themselves 'girl' (so much more flirty and fun and compliant) or 'lady' (ooh - all powerful and ice-queen appealing!) Come on females, label yourself in a way that makes the men happy!

But I am guessing the word “man” is absolutely fine.