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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New York Post article 'Trans doctor who helps teens transition says it’s now ‘gone too far’ '

39 replies

DomesticatedZombie · 15/04/2022 22:00

nypost.com/2022/04/15/transitions-have-gone-too-far-trans-psychologist/

Much of this was in the LA Times article, I think, but I couldn't find the thread ...

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IvyTwines · 16/04/2022 10:58

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus "Nonetheless, given how rapidly and astonishingly successful some advocacy has been in this area (sports; prisons; erasing women as a sex class; pronouns; shifting language around healthcare, policy-making, education) does anybody want to take bets on a widespread drive to problematise the nature of desire?"

I think this already happening. America's Mirriam-Webster dictionary now defines 'homosexuality' as 'now sometimes offensive'. The word lesbian seems to have been almost entirely replaced by 'queer' in TV shows and the arts, and increasingly the word 'gay' too. Their replacement words 'queer' and LGBTQIAP+ have no clearly defined, biological boundaries - they're the sexual equivalent of an 'all gender restroom', to which anyone can enter, and makes it harder for someone who doesn't want to be sent to Coventry by the hip crowd to say 'no, not you'.

tabbycatstripy · 16/04/2022 11:05

Anderson is taking a lot of flak for this. She’s (depending on who is talking) ‘ancient’ and doesn’t understand gender, she’s ‘transphobic’, and someone says she smells of poop.

I think they’re going to find that pausing what they are now calling an ‘endogenous puberty’ also pauses psychological maturation.

Abhannmor · 16/04/2022 11:18

If there is a crowd funder to sue Gallagher I am in. My least favourite fellow Irish person. She has displaced Ian Paisley Jr. At least you can vote against him.

DomesticatedZombie · 16/04/2022 12:06

Dr Anderson, 2019:

'There's a term being thrown around, which is not a scientific term: rapid onset gender dysphoria. Have you heard that term?
LR: No. Is that like acute stress disorder affecting gender?
EA: It's a term made up by parents who are concerned that their teenage children are asserting a trans identity from out of the blue. They are worried that there's some kind of social contagion going on with teenagers where it's cool to be trans. More kids are trans than ever before, and they wonder if maybe they catch it from each other. But I can assure you, transgender identity is not something one catches. It's not infectious'.
...
'One of the things that I'm impressed with by those who get surgery is that the characteristics of the person are all-important. So, if they're healthy, have realistic expectations and a good surgeon, they have a good result and there are no consequences. That's one process. Another might be someone who has health issues, who might be a little more likely to have some kind of untoward consequence of a surgical procedure and are then frustrated afterward because their recovery is a little choppy, and maybe the result isn't exactly what they had hoped.

The differences between people are clear. Historically, surgery has been largely confined to adults 18 and over. But more and more, the trans kids that we're working with whose identity is clear at a young age and who have been on puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones as young teenagers, are getting surgery in their teenage years. This is, of course, with the full consent of their parents when everyone agrees that it's medically indicated.
These kids are being given a gift that someone in that situation a generation ago would never have had
These kids are being given a gift that someone in that situation a generation ago would never have had, which is to avoid some of the life experience in the gender they don’t want, and some of the physical changes in their body that they're not completely comfortable with. They're able to move ahead with their physical transition in such a way that by the time they're in middle to late teenage years, they're fully embodied as the person they see themselves to be and the gender that they assert.'
...
'We have inadequate empirical bases for a lot of the things that we're doing'
...
'I'll tell you one other little anecdote which is kind of special for me. When I see trans kids at the UCSF clinic, I'll say to them, "Do you know any other trans kids?" Sometimes they shake their head, and say, "No, I don't know any other transgender kids." I'll then say, "Well, do you know any other transgender adults?" They'll shake their head, and say, "No, I don’t know any other transgender adults." I look at them and say, "Well, honey, you can't say that anymore, because I'm trans." Their eyes get big, their jaws drop. Sometimes they gasp, sometimes they break into a big smile. And it's such a sweet, special moment for me. Sometimes the parents are not surprised and other times they say, "Really?" And then they say to their child, "See, honey, you can be a doctor. You can have a good life." And I feel, in that moment, like this is a gift to me, to be there with that child.'

www.psychotherapy.net/interview/lgbt/therapy-across-gender-spectrum

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DomesticatedZombie · 16/04/2022 12:07

Their eyes get big, their jaws drop. Sometimes they gasp, sometimes they break into a big smile. And it's such a sweet, special moment for me.

'and then everyone applauded'.

In that interview Dr Anderson discusses transferences and personal bias and questions whether Anderson's transness affects Anderson's work.

I think that 'little anecdote' casts some light.

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DomesticatedZombie · 16/04/2022 12:09

Anderson was one of two trans doctors Abigail Shrier talked to last year.

abigailshrier.substack.com/p/why-marci-matters?s=r

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EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 16/04/2022 12:27

@DomesticatedZombie

Their eyes get big, their jaws drop. Sometimes they gasp, sometimes they break into a big smile. And it's such a sweet, special moment for me.

'and then everyone applauded'.

In that interview Dr Anderson discusses transferences and personal bias and questions whether Anderson's transness affects Anderson's work.

I think that 'little anecdote' casts some light.

Quite.

Sometimes the parents are not surprised and other times they say, "Really?" And then they say to their child, "See, honey, you can be a doctor. You can have a good life." And I feel, in that moment, like this is a gift to me, to be there with that child.'

A more appropriate version of that exchange might be:

See, honey. If you emulate these parts of the story:
remain in your natal sex (but only one has these special privileges),
go through the sex-appropriate puberty,
leverage your sex class advantages to attain entry to a profession at a time when women were subject to quotas for studying medicine and are still, today, limited in how far they're able to go in some medical fields,
have a marriage and family in your natal sex with all of the concomitant social and career advantages,
transition at a time when you're fully established and have garnered many of the prizes associated with your sex class,
then you, too, can be a valorised professional with a good life, part of which is experiencing transference and personal validation from interactions with an in-built power asymmetry.

DomesticatedZombie · 16/04/2022 13:00

Yeah, that doesn't scan quite so well tho Hadrosaurus. Grin

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DysonSphere · 16/04/2022 15:58

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus "Nonetheless, given how rapidly and astonishingly successful some advocacy has been in this area (sports; prisons; erasing women as a sex class; pronouns; shifting language around healthcare, policy-making, education) does anybody want to take bets on a widespread drive to problematise the nature of desire?"

Oh this has soooo happened already. The body positivity crowd are already saying that the fact some people object to the size and colour of other people's bodies is due to socialisation. If you are socialised right, you will want to have sex with everybody no matter what size, skin/hair colour tall/short they are.

It's a short step to 'any gender they are'. I'm sure I've already seen a few comments to the effect that sex is a limiting characteristic for sexual attraction. Narrow, disapproving, exclusionary, judgy. Socialisation and education is the key to freeing desire from rigid and narrow definitions and notions of attraction.

lapasion · 16/04/2022 16:24

I'll tell you one other little anecdote which is kind of special for me. When I see trans kids at the UCSF clinic, I'll say to them, "Do you know any other trans kids?" Sometimes they shake their head, and say, "No, I don't know any other transgender kids." I'll then say, "Well, do you know any other transgender adults?" They'll shake their head, and say, "No, I don’t know any other transgender adults." I look at them and say, "Well, honey, you can't say that anymore, because I'm trans." Their eyes get big, their jaws drop. Sometimes they gasp, sometimes they break into a big smile. And it's such a sweet, special moment for me. Sometimes the parents are not surprised and other times they say, "Really?" And then they say to their child, "See, honey, you can be a doctor. You can have a good life." And I feel, in that moment, like this is a gift to me, to be there with that child.'

This is up there along with the ‘my gynaecologist saw my vagina and said it was better than hers!’ type stories for a shit that didn’t happen award.

DomesticatedZombie · 16/04/2022 16:33

Their eyes get big, their jaws drop. Sometimes they gasp, sometimes they break into a big smile. And it's such a sweet, special moment for me.

This is a doctor talking about patients. Patients who are there to be treated by a qualified professional.

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MangyInseam · 16/04/2022 19:29

[quote DysonSphere]@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus "Nonetheless, given how rapidly and astonishingly successful some advocacy has been in this area (sports; prisons; erasing women as a sex class; pronouns; shifting language around healthcare, policy-making, education) does anybody want to take bets on a widespread drive to problematise the nature of desire?"

Oh this has soooo happened already. The body positivity crowd are already saying that the fact some people object to the size and colour of other people's bodies is due to socialisation. If you are socialised right, you will want to have sex with everybody no matter what size, skin/hair colour tall/short they are.

It's a short step to 'any gender they are'. I'm sure I've already seen a few comments to the effect that sex is a limiting characteristic for sexual attraction. Narrow, disapproving, exclusionary, judgy. Socialisation and education is the key to freeing desire from rigid and narrow definitions and notions of attraction.[/quote]
There are a lot of cultural phenomena that feed into and support gender ideology. One is this weird abstracting of things liek sexuality or attraction. One of the things that I realized from hearing about the GSA group at my kids school is that the kids seem to believe that sexuality is a progressive rights movement, not just because of the oppression on people who aren't straight, but in a weird way because being attracted to only certain people is discriminatory. Being straight means not accepting diversity in your sex life.

If people want to know why parents in the US don't want the schools to be deciding what to teach about sexuality, that kind of shit is a big part of the reason. They'd prefer they say nothing if they are so stupid they would consider teaching stuff like that.

Artichokeleaves · 16/04/2022 20:43

then you, too, can be a valorised professional with a good life, part of which is experiencing transference and personal validation from interactions with an in-built power asymmetry.

One of those quotes that should be in a published article. Well said that viper.

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