Anyone else just sad at how it has gotten to this?

[Roseglen84]

This type of thread has probably been done to death, but I'm just really down today and wondering if anyone can relate.

In the last few days there have been two horrific murders of men in Ireland (where I am) and the police believe they were homophobic attacks. A man has been arrested and it's been headline news here. Yesterday they were talking about it on radio and some people from the LGBT community were asked about it, and they were obviously very upset. However they kept referring to the trans issue, one man repeatedly stated that he had 'seen this type of thing coming because of what is happening in the UK with trans people'. He mentioned it several times, as though they were somehow related.

I just couldn't believe it - how can he think that was a result of the debate that is happening in the UK. Women wanting to keep single sex spaces is not why these men were killed. It just made me angry at first that he was somehow correlating the two things. Women wanting to keep our spaces is not the same as homophobic murders!

Then I just felt so sad - sad that this young man seemed to genuinely believe that women like me and others on MN really want to do him harm. That somehow we hate him and see him as an enemy or something, I got the sense he seriously thought that his community was under attack from all sides and we were part of that. I just can't understand how we got to this point where young people believe that. And they do!

I went for dinner with one of my oldest friends last night, who is a gay man, and I didn't mention any of it. I'm so afraid he will think that I hate him or have turned into some homophobic loon because I support single sex spaces for women. I can't even be honest with him because I don't want to lose the friendship.

I dunno, this probably doesn't make much sense but I've just carried it around since yesterday. How did we become the enemy for wanting to keep men out of single sex spaces?

Its probable that the killer was also a gay man. How the fuck can a gay man killing orher gay men be the fault of women.

I didn't realise that this seems to have been a sexually motivated crime and not a hate crime as you'd normally understand the term.

So are sexually motivated crimes hate crimes, or is that only the case when men are the victims?

Some seriously fucked up thinking in twisting this story to make trans people the victims and blame women who are resisting the trans movement. When women are primarily the victims of this type of crime and the trans movement is directly responsible for vulnerable women being locked up in prison with psychopathic serial killers like whoever did this.

A citation for the "women are locked up in prison with [male] psychopathic serial killers" just in case anyone reading thinks I'm being hateful or hyperbolic. Depressingly, there are multiple examples. 4w.pub/male-serial-killer-housed-at-washington-womens-prison/

Not so much sad as stunned, disillusioned, and getting more militant by the day, particularly regarding the safety of children.

Apparently there was a trans pride protest today in Dublin in response to these killings .

It's just galling to see them jump into action and use stuff like this to cement their victimhood.

The transgender movement has, from the beginning, used violence against trans people (both homicides and suicides) as the fuel in their engine. It is reminders of that violence which are used to silence critics and it is also reminders of that violence which seem to be the justification for why another discriminated-against group should hand over its hard-fought rights. If that handover does not happen, then it is the fault of women that some trans person, somewhere in the world (most often in South America) is killed.

And now it is even the murder of gay people which is to be counted in the relevant type of violence against transgender individuals.

All violence is terrible, all violence should be protested. But it's also true that the rate at which transgender people are killed in the US and the UK is lower than the rate at which men as a demographic group are killed in those countries.

White trans people, in particular, have very low rates of becoming homicide victims.

This does not mean that transgender people wouldn't face harassment or even violence. But the level of such violence is vastly exaggerated for propaganda purposes.

When women talk people get killed.

Witches!

@JoodyBlue

It has got to this because discussion has been under the radar for so long, and oridinary people have not allowed their voices to be heard in discussion, debate, support and dissent. The silencing tactic is what has got us here. The only way through it is for more and more women to stand up and speak up. The GC viewpoint is not hateful, it is simply live in your body, the way you want, and get on with your life, the way you want. Own your sex, then live however you want. This is the message, it needs getting out there and it needs getting out there fast and to as many young people as possible. More adults need to start adulting.

I agree with this.

We need to start speaking up and stop giving reasons why there's no point/ worrying what people will think of us. We need to push past the discomfort and speak!

If everything stays the same, nothing will change, as they say. And each of us needs to be the change, as they also say.