NEU says trans conversion therapy should be banned

[ResisterRex]

In the Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10718287/Teachers-call-ban-conversion-therapy-trans-pupils.html

Tired of hearing about this from campaigning organisations that clearly don’t understand (or pretend not to understand) the concerns of those who don’t recognise the concept of the ‘trans child’. I find their position extreme.

Where are all these boot camps in the UK where trans people are being forced to undergo conversion therapy? I haven't heard of any. They must be top secret.

Have they decided what it actually is yet?

I will be entirely happy for these organisations to explain what conversion therapy is and what it means.

I am here for the nuance and context.

The Neu also had a weird session on covering porn as well. Beyond me why any teacher is still a member.

Affinity is a union that covers teachers and is apolitical if you're wondering.

Edapt provides legal advice and cover especially for teachers but is not strictly speaking a union.

What the fuck has this got to do with the NEU anyway? Stick to your job.

Back when I was a teacher it really pissed me off when my union was messing around making statements about Palestine, or George Bush, or something else beyond their remit. It's easy to grandstand - anyone can do it - how about sticking to the difficult stuff that you're actually supposed to be doing?

I should be a Unison member now, but I cannot join them of course, so I'm left without union protection. DO YOUR JOB!

I hope they brought enough soapboxes for everybody. No? Then perhaps they could climb down & refocus their energies on the needs of their members

Having been looking at this for years I've come to the conclusion that trans conversion therapy is someone not immediately and automatically validating a declared trans identity in all those respects that are demanded by a trans person.

I still think conversion therapy should be banned

No to physically converting people

She added that the motion was not seeking to ban supportive counselling delivered by trained professionals, but that trans conversion therapy was built into 'our society, medical presumptions and current conversations.

Trans people faced being 'misgendered, having their identity, feelings even their existence questioned and challenged, every single day', she added.

So there's your answer to how they define conversion therapy:

1. medical presumptions (doctors understanding biology, even if they don't dare mention it?!?)
2. current conversations (with family, colleagues, friends??)
3. being misgendered (literal violence, dontcha know!)
4. having their identity, feelings even their existence questioned and challenged

(my deletion: we've all seen the narrative that questioning identity=denying existence. It makes zero sense )

So much for nobody intending this ill defined ban to prevent normal family conversations and exploratory therapy!!! That's exactly what this ban is aimed at. And we see it.

What the fuck has this got to do with the NEU anyway? Stick to your job.
And
perhaps they could climb down & refocus their energies on the needs of their members

This was where my thoughts first went to.

They’re a disgrace, and not just on this. If I were still teaching I’d not touch them with a bargepole.

It is teachers who are on the front line of this and we have to negotiate it every day.

By the way, I had a student in my tutor group who had the pronouns zee/ zer on her record - guess who was the only person who ever used them? That's right - me!

So does that mean I should report all of zer classmates and other teachers for conversion therapy?

By the way, the reason why none of zer other classmates, teachers or even zer own brother used zer pronouns is because its not the way most people talk or negotiate the world. I had to always stop and search for the right word when talking about zer ('is zee in today? Has anyone seen zer? Etc').

Bizarrely @rabbitwoman , that's the first time I've recognised individualised pronouns could work. Essentially it's an extra name. Basically those people have an extra name. I could actually do that.

I see no need to- it's a bit egotistical to want two names when everyone else has one. I'd see it as being a bit like naming your child 'Princess-Bella'.

This frightens me. Young idealistic Teachers who desperately want to do the right thing are being primed to affirm the MRA/TRA agenda.

Could they focus on actual safeguarding?

As someone said on another thread yesterday, who is it that wants adult women with the bodies of children? I bet there are people who watched the Jimmy Saville documentary this week who still aren’t joining the dots.

Hmm... I'm a member of the NEU. I think I need to switch.

They'd need to define it first

I was a member of ATL before they merged to for the NEU, which basically involved wiping out ATL - it’s culture of not striking and not being loud-mouthed about political issues that are of no relevances to teaching. Now I am not a union member.

NEU also tweeted it on their timeline.

Gender woo woo is so common in children's talk at the moment. I think children are in the belief they can just say they are the opposite sex and that's it they are!
80% of teachers surveyed said they had 'transgender' pupils. I do think teachers need guidelines of this, but I'm hoping DofE give a balanced guidance rather than a mermaid/ stonewall advice. I definitely think toilets should be sexed not gendered or gender neutral.

I do, however think we are confusing children with gender identity and we should be looking at body positivity rather than gender identity (aka stereotypes)

If the NEU was really looking after our interests they would say it is unreasonable to expect teachers to remember an array of pronouns and names that do not appear on the register and then, having remembered to use them in school, to remember to revert to the child’s birth name and pronouns when talking to the parents. It puts us in an impossible situation.

@Genevieva

If the NEU was really looking after our interests they would say it is unreasonable to expect teachers to remember an array of pronouns and names that do not appear on the register and then, having remembered to use them in school, to remember to revert to the child’s birth name and pronouns when talking to the parents. It puts us in an impossible situation.

This with bells.

And they definitely shouldn't be ignoring the safeguarding alarm bells which this often brings up.

@Genevieva

If the NEU was really looking after our interests they would say it is unreasonable to expect teachers to remember an array of pronouns and names that do not appear on the register and then, having remembered to use them in school, to remember to revert to the child’s birth name and pronouns when talking to the parents. It puts us in an impossible situation.

Even if you don't have to revert when talking to parents it must horrendous. In a secondary school you often have to address kids you don't know from a distance. The days when you could call across the yard or down a corridor - lads, pick up that litter you've just dropped; girls why are you not in lessons, where should you be now? Will you two girls run quickly for the first aider? Well done lads, thank you for helping that visitor/small child/someone carrying something....You're doing it all the time. Praising, calling warnings, stopping misbehaviour, sending children for help of one kind or another. Corridors in some schools are bad enough behaviour-wise without giving kids another reason to berate staff.

I’ve left NEU recently. I haven’t examined my new union closely enough to know how they deal with such matters- I’m too wary. You have to have a union if you’re a teacher so it’s a concern.

Just found the article on the NEU and porn

"Member Amy Fletcher added that pornography was having a harmful impact on her pupils and that porn was “laced with sexist, heteronormative, racist and ableist tropes”."

What is she proposing to do? Have a media lesson and show it to the kids? Why is she bringing up watching it - would you want your kids' teachers to advertise that they do? Why is she normalising watching it by talking about it? Surely that is more harmful?

I really do not understand the NEU. Talk about bringing the profession into disrepute.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/13/schools-should-teach-children-porn-neu-conference-hears/

That's interesting Christina. The BBC had a slightly more sanitised readout:

Online porn: 'My pupils ask me about violence' www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61045514

Although I did raise an eyebrow at the quote in there about the RSE "focus on marriage", which I don't think is an accurate representation of the DfE guidance:

"a teacher in Hackney, told NEU members that the current Relationships and Sex Education (RSE) curriculum "seeks to narrow the kind of relationships and discussions we can have".

"Marriage is promoted actively more than once in the documents, parents are allowed to withdraw kids from sex education lessons, and faith groups are allowed to provide alternative presentations of RSE. The word 'fun' is not mentioned once," she said."

How would a school let teachers talk about "fun" in a sexual context, without exposing their teachers to complaints or assuming their teachers have never been abused and actually don't want to discuss sex fun with children?!