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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trouble in Paradise?

27 replies

Mochudubh · 14/04/2022 14:42

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20068666.green-minister-patrick-harvie-accuses-snp-allowing-transphobia-fester-party/

Oh dear.

Currently complete consensus in the comments with not one mention of "CyberNats" or "Yoons" something I've NEVER seen BTL in the Herald before.

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 14/04/2022 14:47

‘Obviously it’s possible to express concern or uncertainty or want to debate the detail of how we get this legislation right without being transphobic. Of course it is. We want to have that debate in a respectful way which is free of transphobia.’

I can’t... My head hurts.

Scorchedterf · 14/04/2022 14:47

Could you explain please, I’m relatively new to all this and don’t understand your comments. And what this is about.

Snoodsy · 14/04/2022 14:55

Transphobia transphobia transphobia!!! Fuuuuuck awwwwf.

picklemewalnuts · 14/04/2022 15:00

So Patrick Harvey says "Some of the comments that I’ve seen online have been appalling."

BUT doesn't specify what the comments are, and claims we can discuss the subject sensitively.

I don't think I've seen the SNP say anything transphobic. How are people supposed to know whether what they say is transphobic or sensitive?

The long and the short of it seems to be you can say anything you like, but if it's critical it's transphobic.

dropthevipers · 14/04/2022 15:11

@Scorchedterf

Could you explain please, I’m relatively new to all this and don’t understand your comments. And what this is about.
It goes like this. One side believes in old fashioned stuff like truth, reality, biology and science. The other side believes that men become women via the magic of saying so-the key article of faith for these types is the mantra "TWAW" (trans women are women). Any deviation at all from that key tenant gets you doxxed, cancelled, accused of transphobia and subject to death/rape threats. Given that the proportion of sensible people far outweighs the completely fucking batshit mentalists, you would think this would be easily dismissed. This would be a mistake because, although small in number, the Koolaid gang are very vocal and very nasty,
tabbycatstripy · 14/04/2022 15:13

Is it true that Harvie supported PIE?

Mochudubh · 14/04/2022 15:23

@Scorchedterf

Thanks to @dropthevipers for the succinct explanation.

For further clarification The Herald is anti- independence and comments below the line usually amount to a mud-slinging contest between:

Cybernats = a derogatory term used by Unionist commentators to refer to Indy supporters.
Yoons = a derogatory term used by Indy supporters to refer to Unionists.

To see such a consensus (that Harvie is an idiot) in the comments is almost unheard of.

OP posts:
Mochudubh · 14/04/2022 22:41

anthony accorinti
6 hrs ago
User ID: 1087645

What a fanny.

My favourite comment so far

OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 14/04/2022 22:47

@picklemewalnuts

So Patrick Harvey says "Some of the comments that I’ve seen online have been appalling."

BUT doesn't specify what the comments are, and claims we can discuss the subject sensitively.

I don't think I've seen the SNP say anything transphobic. How are people supposed to know whether what they say is transphobic or sensitive?

The long and the short of it seems to be you can say anything you like, but if it's critical it's transphobic.

'you can say anything you like so long as it's 'yes sir''
DomesticatedZombie · 14/04/2022 22:52

These issues are devastating for the green agenda. They make the party look ludicrous.

We have three years to reach net zero, and people are desperately fannying around with bullshit identity politics.

Waitwhat23 · 14/04/2022 23:38

The Scottish Greens as a party voted against the 6 words amendment (which allows rape survivors to request a female examiner). Andy Wightman resigned after being admonished for attending meetings to hear concerns about women's concerns and being threatened with disciplinary action if he voted for the proposed amendment.

The Scottish Greens aren't interested in hearing any view which deviates from their own.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55361550.amp

FOJN · 15/04/2022 07:43

Is it true that Harvie supported PIE?

I've just googled and it seems he received an award for LGBT activism which was named after Ian Dunn who was a pro-paedophilia and gay rights campaigner. It looks like Harvie's veiws on PIE have been assumed by his acceptance of that award.

FOJN · 15/04/2022 07:46

According to wiki, Dunn co-founded PIE.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Dunn_(activist)

ResisterRex · 15/04/2022 08:39

Malcolm Clark has occasionally noted Ian Dunn:

mobile.twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1381273155336089604

Thread
mobile.twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1473796354031984642

In this thread as well:

mobile.twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1307883098516983809

FOJN · 15/04/2022 08:51

Well that's a lot of very interesting background. You'd expect Harvie to want to distance himself from anything associated with Dunn.

I wish Malcolm Clark would turn his threads in to a book.

ResisterRex · 15/04/2022 08:52

I wish Malcolm Clark would turn his threads in to a book

Or a documentary. Or both!

DrBlackbird · 15/04/2022 09:06

Those Malcolm Clark threads explain the whole timeline v succinctly. Amazing how fast the ideology has taken root.

FOJN · 15/04/2022 09:10

Given his line of work a documentary would make much more sense.

RoyalCorgi · 15/04/2022 09:27

Worth remembering that the fawning obituary of Ian Dunn that Malcolm links to was written by Peter Tatchell. Tatchell later claimed not to know that Dunn had co-founded the Paedophile Information Exchange.

FOJN · 15/04/2022 10:18

Well this thread has been very educational. Such a large jigsaw; so many pieces.

Mochudubh · 15/04/2022 10:39

Very good post BTL, it's long but worth quoting in full.

"Adam Nielson
9 hrs ago
User ID: 1058131

That's probably the biggest problem with the whole 'trans-ideology' Kenneth .

As Tom Gordon proves ( and he's usually accurate and factual in his journalism), most folk still have little or no idea what the actual bill and it's implications are - and what it will mean for every woman - old, middle-aged, young, teenagers, and children - in Scotland . By using 'gender' rather than the accurate word - sex - he shows that he's another journalist who still doesn't ' understand (or perhaps care ?) what's going on . What the GRA Bill will do is give the legal right to any man to change his sex, not his gender . Anyone can currently change their gender into anything they want that gender to be .

But as anyone with half a brain knows, no-one can change their physical sex .
It's a biological impossibility, and it always has been - and always will be .
But 5 or more years ago the trans-ideologists started using 'gender' rather than 'sex' in all it's propaganda while it was steadily taking over sections of governments - including ours - across the planet .
Most politicians and ordinary people think 'transgender' (still no legal definition of that word !) means 'transsexual' - the tiny number of folk born with male and female physicality . Invariably this is a very minor 'problem' and can be easily rectified . For some, it;s a serious condition, and those folk need all the help and support we can give them .

I've spoken to far too many people who really do think that's who the GRA bill and trans-ideology is about . It isn't. It's not even close. And it was never meant to be as that 2015 FOI I've referenced on these forums proves . That FOI contained all the emails between a ScotGov department and the Scottish Trans Alliance with regard to a support programme planned to assist (genuine) transsexual people in Scotland. But as soon as the £41K p/a was agreed - for 5 years - the word 'transsexual' suddenly meant 'transgender', and very soon 'gender' became 'sex' . It was all part of the plan, and if anyone doesn't believe that, please read what is now known as 'Dentons' (simply search for 'IGLYO Dentons ' and you'll find it ) . Dentons is a huge international law firm noted for doing excellent pro-bono legal work for good causes, and a few years ago was asked by IGLYO (same search will tell you what that acronym is, and who it targets) to create a 'best practice' blueprint for trans-allies, and how they can undermine democracies without being noticed . Ireland is used as an example .
There, self ID and related policies were introduced into law without the media, the politicians, and the public noticing. The Irish GRA/Self ID bill was simply added to the very popular equal marriage bill at the last minute, and the entire package was voted through . That's the kind of 'best practice ' Harvie is actually talking about . Since then, Ireland and other countries that introduced Self ID etc are having second thoughts as the facts hit home, and the effects of self ID, the removal of all 'gatekeeping', the lowering of age restrictions, and how it was destroying the lives of tens of thousands of young people and children (mostly young women and girls) in those same 'bast practice' countries .
A few stopped their Self ID and related policies in their tracks when the facts appeared .
Genuine science/clinical based independent research was commissioned, and it's unlikely countries like Sweden will be embarking on the same process anytime soon . Scotland is sprinting towards a place that other countries are now retreating from - because our politicians and population are being kept in the dark by poorly informed journalists . The facts are now there. People need to read them .

It's a huge subject, and sadly, it;s probably too late to counter the fantasy science and magical thinking that effectively controls Holyrood .
We are even hearing politicians claim that biological 'sex' is a spiritual thing, and has more to do with the soul (really ??) than science and medicine .
Hopefully, those politicians think that sex = gender, because if they don't, we're heading back to the 15th century .
At the moment over 50,000 young women and girls are queuing up to have their breasts removed in the USA . Some are as young as 12 - and that's where Harvie & Co want Scotland to be .

I could go on for hours. So could many of my friends - including two transwomen (which is what they call themselves - they know they can never be women, and they accept that . I've known them over a decade, and they and other trans folk are totally opposed to self ID and the scrapping of the medical and psychological gatekeeping that prevents most 'gender confused' people making a terrible mistake .
They went through the full two year + process 30 years ago, and they know that we need those checks, the gatekeeping, the assessments ...... because they know what happens if all those things are scrapped, as do the tens of thousands of young ' detransitioners ' who were conned into thinking they were 'trans' when what they really were was suffering from the fairly normal move from child to adult .
Again, that research has now been done (and there's more to follow), and it shows that anything between 70 and 90% of young self-identifying trans-women and girls are still depressed, are still suffering from various psychological conditions, are still suicidal - but now their bodies have been destroyed too, either by radical surgery or dangerous drugs that have shortened their sad lives .
Tom Gordon could redeem himself by finding out what the 'Yogyakarta Principles ' are (and the recent update - YP+10), who signed them, how they were created, and what they would mean for women and children if any country wrote them into its' legal system .
Why ?
Because doing just that is a core policy of the Scottish Greens . Slater/Harvie etc don't mention the YP's at the moment - for obvious reasons , and when it was discovered what the ScotGreens were planning, a few real journalists asked various SNP ministers about them, and whether the ScotGov was sympathetic or even supportive of the Greens plan .
It became disturbingly obvious that almost all of those SNP ministers had no idea what 'The Yogyakarta Principles' were/are, while a couple clumsily waffled and stuttered while not giving an answer (that was around 3 years ago, before the media was effectively 'captured' by the ideology) .
From what we've heard, seen, and read recently those ministers and other politicians are still every bit as clueless .

But looking at all the other self-inflicted disasters the country is dealing with, that cluelessness should surprise no-one."

OP posts:
MarchXX · 15/04/2022 11:02

Haha, @Mochudubh I just copied that exact quote from the comments in the article! Good job I checked first before posting it, again Grin. It is a corker, that's for sure.

Waitwhat23 · 15/04/2022 11:07

That's a brilliant post from BTL. Lays it all out very, very clearly.

DomesticatedZombie · 15/04/2022 12:00

@RoyalCorgi

Worth remembering that the fawning obituary of Ian Dunn that Malcolm links to was written by Peter Tatchell. Tatchell later claimed not to know that Dunn had co-founded the Paedophile Information Exchange.
Although according to this article (first link), Tatchell contributed to and reviewed 'The Betrayal of Youth, Radical Perspective on Child Sexuality', which was edited by Warren Middleton, described in the second article as 'a prominent activist with the Paedophile Information Exchange [PIE]'.

preview.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/27/peter-tatchell-children-have-sexual-desires-early-age/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2689379/Child-abusers-Home-Office-Amid-growing-furore-cover-paedophile-ring-heart-Westminster-expose-true-extent-scandal.html

Williamshatnershorses · 15/04/2022 12:33

I should like Patrick Harvie to name names and detail the transphobic messages. I find it curious that he won’t do so.

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