Why can’t we speak the truth?

[idsisatwat]

I know this will probably be deleted, for speaking the truth and being a TAAT. However, it’s a thread about several threads that have been deleted for stating facts.
What are we actually allowed to say now? After Maya’s case, surely we’re allowed to talk about one this? This affects all women, and mumsnet is one of the few places where women come together to talk.

This is what i was talking about

So two threads which I participated in have been deleted in the last few hours.
Excuse me if I am wrong but I thought our right to discuss biology, biological fact etc was PROTECTED because of recent rulings in court.
We are in fact permitted by law to say that a biological man is not a woman, and does not have female biological processes eg periods.

WHY are these threads being deleted?
Why does it seem that some people are complicit in allowing biological men to go unchallenged when they say they have periods?
WHY is a thread about a trans woman in a female sporting team deleted when all it is saying is that there are biological differences between male and female athletes?

I would like to know the EXACT reason why threads are removed, not a "this breaks our guidelines" type response.

WHY are we being silenced and for whose benefit?

Deleting threads does not make the facts change Mumsnet.
Who are you trying to protect?

I expect that money is the reason these threads are being deleted.

Mumsnet is a business and needs to make money. We use it for free and, as I understand it, MN makes its money from advertising.

There have been times when Justine has been in talks with advertisers who are threatening to remove their business because certain people are offended by our views, so more stringent guidelines were put in place. MN is walking a tightrope with this.

I don't blame Mumsnet, I blame the fact that money overrides conscience and the truth.

I read the guidelines today to see if they had been updated after the Forstater ruling.

They haven't.

They are also unclear and I am left honestly not knowing what we can and cannot write.

It's annoying that women are being silenced on a woman's forum on an issue that is crucial to us.

Agreed about the tightrope MN has to walk. Also that there are plenty of people who post on MN who are very against any gender critical views- the site is for them too.

However, I've just read a tweet where a woman was questioned about the fact that her pronouns were at the end of her twitter bio, implying that she wasn't making them a high enough priority. There are a lot of people who just enjoy forcing women to hop to their tune, and lots of them have a hobby of persecuting MN. (The woman questioned on twitter apologised fulsomely).

We're up against extreme censorious views, and Mumsnet has to protect itself, even if it doesn't seem fair or logical from our perspective.

This is probably a comment about a thread and I accept I may have missed later posts but I didn't see anything offensive. I would be interested to know why it was taken down.

The deletion message, said it was a TAAT. But in reality it was about lots of threads. On other topics I think it would have stayed up, as the discussion wasn't really about one thread in particular

@NotTerfNorCis

We're up against extreme censorious views, and Mumsnet has to protect itself, even if it doesn't seem fair or logical from our perspective.

I agree with this, and what permanent said

'Cause men and money hold the power and women are going to be reduced to baby making machines. I haven't slept so I have no filter today

The advertising thing is stupid though.

If companies want to remove ads that will be seen by millions of women, who are most likely to buy their products for themselves or their children in order to pander to the feelings of a tiny % of irrelevant males, more fool them.

To be honest though, we seem to be far more free to state facts than we were even 6 months ago. Far less individual comments seem to be being deleted now.
This is happening in the press and in real life too though. More and more people every day waking up and thinking WTAF.

Twitter ratios are now mostly GC except for the TRA who block anyone who disagrees.
People are getting less and less afraid to speak the truth.

Anyone who tells you not to be general and also don't be specific, really needs to be clear about what it is they are allowing you to say and what you actually can't say. However in telling you what you can and can't say, they are potentially breaking their own guidelines.

Hope that helps.

Any company that I know has pulled ads from Mumsnet is a company I stop using.

I don't usually agree with the things Mumsnet deletes (that I know about) in this forum, but at least this is a place where you don't have to completely lie about the reality of who is a woman & pretend it includes any man ever.

Actually, I'd like to see a "These businesses don't want Mumsnet business" thread with a list of anyone who has refused or pulled ads to make sure I'm not giving money to a misogynistic company by accident.

Not sure we'd be allowed one though.

You'd be better off having the dialogue with the moderators or MN staff than asking posters if you're wanting informed clarification on the matters that you raise.

There was a poster who posted about the exact processes involved in periods and was deleted. That wouldn’t be deleted in women’s health but it is on this board. That doesn’t seem right.

@PermanentTemporary

Agreed about the tightrope MN has to walk. Also that there are plenty of people who post on MN who are very against any gender critical views- the site is for them too.

However, I've just read a tweet where a woman was questioned about the fact that her pronouns were at the end of her twitter bio, implying that she wasn't making them a high enough priority. There are a lot of people who just enjoy forcing women to hop to their tune, and lots of them have a hobby of persecuting MN. (The woman questioned on twitter apologised fulsomely).

@PermanentTemporary I don't think it's just women affected. It's the nature of purity spirals for true believers to always push for greater and great adherence and 'purity'. And therein lies the roots of their own demise, because they will always push it too far and disillusion more and more people.