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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I wish Posie had been there

78 replies

GreenTeaBean · 12/04/2022 22:05

The woman is a legend, she is bloody fearless, has put herself in the line of fire numerous times at great personal cost. I know her politics don't perfectly align with the lefty lot, and she's pissed of people like Julie Bindel, but honestly, she's done so much good in this fight and reached people all over the world.

OP posts:
Artichokeleaves · 13/04/2022 08:59

What a shame that people have to wet blanket and niggle about anything women ever do.

This was an online friendship group who met up in person ffs. It was not a formal meeting or awards ceremony recognising women at the forefront of women's rights, it was a group of people who knew each other online and wanted to meet in person.

Busily reproaching and policing where women aren't womening properly, that they aren't putting themselves selflessly aside and including everybody, thinking first of everybody (and optics), judging everything they do by what they didnt do right by someone else's fussing - ffs, this is what we're standing up against from bloody men, who can't see female humans as real people. We don't need it from other women too.

unwashedanddazed · 13/04/2022 09:04

I'd like to thank JKR for standing up for women and using her far-reaching influence to achieve so much.

I'd also like to thank KJKM for standing up for women and probably only coming second to JKR for reaching so many people across the world. For an ordinary SAHM her influence and reach has been astonishing.

They've both been brilliant in the face of extraordinary opposition.

Artichokeleaves · 13/04/2022 09:04

Btw, I'm meeting a mate in town later for coffee - is that ok, or should I get a hair shirt out and start rending garments that I haven't thought to invite Baroness Nicholson and Kier Starmer?

This week alone, we have one activist who seems to think everyone female should present themselves to that activist for a decision on whether or not they look sufficiently stereotypical to that activist to grant them permission to call themselves a woman,

Another activist who even more fondly seems to think that before being permitted justice he wishes you to submit your mobile phone to him and he'll decide whether or not you qualify based on which model it is,

And now apparently you're supposed to submit your bloody guest lists for approval if you want to meet up with friends.

Grip shop. Over there. That away.

PatsArrow · 13/04/2022 09:14

Look, we love JKR, and yes lots of us love KJK.

Why on EARTH are people making this about KJK? Fancy a new rift?

So Julie Bindel and KJK don't like each other? So what? Who cares?
JFC. It was a lunch between friends. I honestly can't believe I've seen this petty sniping on this board.

Disappointing beyond belief.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 13/04/2022 09:21

I honestly can't believe I've seen this petty sniping on this board

Theres two posters making comments along those lines

The board is open to everyone whatever their views…and whether they are here in good faith or not

There are always going to be people sowing division ESPECIALLY on this board

DoubleTweenQueen · 13/04/2022 09:31

KJK had a very successful trip to US a few weeks ago with KD, from which has come a large number of contacts and requests for interviews and engagement. She's been very busy, and I imagine will be focussed on fitting in some quality family time over the school holibobs, perhaps even a very well deserved holiday.
Some school holidays started on the 5th.
I don't think it's appropriate to assume she wasn't invited.

JulesJules · 13/04/2022 10:00

Oh FFS. Nobody should have been invited, nobody was snubbed . This sounds like an AIBU thread about a birthday party for 6 year olds. Just stop it.

materialgirrlz · 13/04/2022 10:25

So Julie Bindel and KJK don't like each other?

I don't think that's true, best not to encourage the TRAs Hmm

Datun · 13/04/2022 10:29

Of course it's not a snub. Does anyone seriously think that J. K. Rowling is deliberately excluding countless, wonderful women?

No.

She's including a dozen fabulous ones.

If not inviting women to that lunch means they are snubbed, then J. K. Rowling, the woman who has done so bloody much for the cause, has just given them all the finger.

Nobody seriously believes that.

I think part of the problem is that J. K. Rowling has an almost mythical status, even more so, since she stuck her head above the parapet for women.

It's the Willy Wonka golden ticket.

Except it isn't.

Her being on our side is.

And she is. And so are all those wonderful, raucous, lionhearted, dependable women clinking glasses with her.

🥂

And here's to Posie and all the others too.

And the Albert Hall full of vipers! Hell yeah to that idea.

🥂🥂🥂🥂

flipandflop · 13/04/2022 10:50

@materialgirrlz

So Julie Bindel and KJK don't like each other?

I don't think that's true, best not to encourage the TRAs Hmm

I think Julie Bindel said Kellie-Jay was "thick and a bigot".
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 13/04/2022 11:48

@Artichokeleaves

What a shame that people have to wet blanket and niggle about anything women ever do.

This was an online friendship group who met up in person ffs. It was not a formal meeting or awards ceremony recognising women at the forefront of women's rights, it was a group of people who knew each other online and wanted to meet in person.

Busily reproaching and policing where women aren't womening properly, that they aren't putting themselves selflessly aside and including everybody, thinking first of everybody (and optics), judging everything they do by what they didnt do right by someone else's fussing - ffs, this is what we're standing up against from bloody men, who can't see female humans as real people. We don't need it from other women too.

Aha!

Now I can put my finger on what's bothering me.

I have become very familiar with people on the internet who wish to dictate the lives of women they have never met, in order to virtue-signal and show "kindness". (No-one much cares about being kind to women.)

From the men and women who sit on the sidelines to tell female rugby players to be inclusive, safe in the knowledge that it's not them who will suffer an injury, to the women who cheer on the placement of male rapists in women's prisons, safe in the knowledge it's not them sharing sleeping space with a convicted rapist, it's all the same.

Spending other women's time, and second-guessing what they do, in order to prove your own goodness, without ever lifting a finger yourself.

This is just more of the same, except KJK is the beneficiary instead of male transitioners. I bet she'd have recognised it immediately, too.

Like I said before, show appreciation to her yourself. Go to a meet-up, and buy her a drink. Ask to sit at the table with her and tell her how brilliant she is. Or, if London is too far away, send her an email, or buy something from her shop

www.adulthumanfemale.store/

Artichokeleaves · 13/04/2022 13:07

I think Julie Bindel said Kellie-Jay was "thick and a bigot".

And?

So?

Is this a moral purity spiral thing where you cannot ever believe in anything said by anyone not 100% pure by some arbitrary standard?

Is this just a blunt and rather unsubtle attempt to try and stir up division and trouble because anything nice happening to GC women is a problem?

No, not all grown ups like each other. It's not nursery, not everyone in the group is 'your friend', and grown ups generally also have the emotional sophistication to cope with agreeing with someone on one point but not on another.

Who exactly is the arbitrator of moral purity on guest lists and who is sufficiently morally pure btw, who appointed them and what training did they have that make them so superior to the rest of us mere mortals? This is starting to get really tedious.

Datun · 13/04/2022 13:30

Excellent post PurgatoryOfPotholes.

Using Posie as leverage to sow division.

And your insightful, 'go show your own appreciation to Posie if you think she's deficient in the gratitude stakes' is spot on.

One minute she's being sneeringly referred to as our leader, the next she's out in the cold, snubbed and unappreciated.

She's one hell of a barometer. 😁

flipandflop · 13/04/2022 15:25

I think Julie Bindel said Kellie-Jay was "thick and a bigot"

And?

So?

I don't know about you but I'm not keen on a woman calling another woman "thick".

Biancodays · 13/04/2022 15:31

@flipandflop

I think Julie Bindel said Kellie-Jay was "thick and a bigot"

And?

So?

I don't know about you but I'm not keen on a woman calling another woman "thick".

Well, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
MrsOvertonsWindow · 13/04/2022 15:34

Welcome to Mumsnet flipandflop and the GreenTeaBean
You might find AIBU more to your taste - there's lots of threads pop up on there seeking to divide people.

Artichokeleaves · 13/04/2022 15:37

@flipandflop

I think Julie Bindel said Kellie-Jay was "thick and a bigot"

And?

So?

I don't know about you but I'm not keen on a woman calling another woman "thick".

And?

Where are you going with this?

You're cancelling Julie Bindel? (Thank you for sharing)
JKR should do public penance for having associated with her?
What?

AnnesBrokenSlate · 13/04/2022 15:39

If it looks like a derail, types like a derail and reads like a derail.

If it looks like an attempt at division, types like an attempt at division and reads like an attempt at division.

If it looks like a gf, types like a gf and reads like a gf.

so many possibilities with that sentence structure

do we have a grey rock emoji yet

SapphosRock · 13/04/2022 15:44

Didn't Julie Bindel and PP have a public spat? And Kathleen Stock called her a liability?

I don't think it's a 'snub' to not invite someone who isn't a feminist to a feminist lunch.

Agree Karen Ingala Smith would have been a nice addition.

Lynnthesearesexnotgenderpeople · 13/04/2022 15:47

I agree with the PP who said that that Kellie-Jay is actually better largely on her own. She has a unique style on this that isn't everyone's cup of tea, and is doing a great job of bringing sunlight to the issue in her own way. I think if people become preoccupied with trying to force people together, focus will get lost on the important things.

Also, it's worth remembering that it is completely normal in any rights movement for there to be disagreements and different factions forming. Some prominent activists have even been murdered by people on their own side. This is not unique to gender critical feminism in any way and to focus on it just creates division and takes away from everything else.

I'm sure if, even if they don't necessarily want to unite with her publicly, every single one of the women at that lunch will recognise that contributions that KJ makes to the cause.

Or, of course, she just might not have been available that day Grin

CrossPurposes · 13/04/2022 15:51

No movement is a hivemind - Sylvia Pankhurst famously distanced herself from her mother and her (most famous) sister over their pro war stance.

Datun · 13/04/2022 15:53

I agree with the PP who said that that Kellie-Jay is actually better largely on her own.

Me too. Her success lies partly in her lack of constraint.

Not that it's at all relevant to J. K. Rowling inviting her mates out for lunch.

NitroNine · 13/04/2022 16:06

@MaMaLa321

can't we move away from binary thinking on this? I thought it looked great, and I loved to see those great women celebrating. Good for them. But I wouldn't class it as a private lunch, when images have been posted and reposted. And I believe it was a snub to PP, not that she would give a damn. She has done more than anyone else to push this forward. Julie Bindel made a point of being snarky about her in the unherd discussion recently, and, to me , the lunch has a Mean Girls vibe. But this always happens in successful movements, they split into smaller factions. Mainstream feminists find PP unpalatable, and it shows.
I think someone may need to break it - very kindly & gently - to MaMaLa321 about i. smart phones & ii. social media. Perhaps you could take them out to lunch & discuss it - but only if you take a packed lunch & avoid even a hint of levity. No photos, naturally…
Fieldofgreycorn · 13/04/2022 16:08

can't we move away from binary thinking on this?

What sex? Or lunches?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 13/04/2022 16:09

@AnnesBrokenSlate

If it looks like a derail, types like a derail and reads like a derail.

If it looks like an attempt at division, types like an attempt at division and reads like an attempt at division.

If it looks like a gf, types like a gf and reads like a gf.

so many possibilities with that sentence structure

do we have a grey rock emoji yet

Grin Grin
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