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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What happened to the 'women's cycling group' thread? I was interested in that.

14 replies

ControversialOpening · 10/04/2022 11:38

Did somebody say something naughty?

Could we restart it please? I was learning a few things there.

OP posts:
whatashame2022 · 10/04/2022 11:48

It was deleted. I have no idea why but I've not been active in this group for a while so am probably behind on the list of rules (last time I was an active poster - under a different account a few years ago - they were just being introduced.)

I was lamenting that a cycling group/club I was part of (until this morning) is now mixed sex owing to their policy on trans inclusion. This all arose out of the sport conversation that's going on.

I've thought about it a bit since posting and I think what I'd like to see is a club that exists that can support both positions: where there are inclusive activities (if that's what people want) but also acceptance of women who want to organise single sex groups - and for the non-GC women to accept that. I can't see that happening though as the knee-jerk (coming from the "right side of history" side) seems to be that the club is either/or.

Slidey23 · 10/04/2022 11:50

I think @quadzilla has posted in relation to Breeze rides too on a couple of threads.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 10/04/2022 12:05

what I'd like to see is a club that exists that can support both positions: where there are inclusive activities (if that's what people want) but also acceptance of women who want to organise single sex groups - and for the non-GC women to accept that. I can't see that happening though as the knee-jerk (coming from the "right side of history" side) seems to be that the club is either/or.

You might want to have more if a read around the threads here. It's interesting in that, once you do, you realise that the knee jerk responses really don't often come from women. Most women here and in real life would just like to be 'allowed' a female group without having to do all the politicking, double thinking, being scared is being ostracized, when, as inevitably happens, a transwoman knowing the group is for women, shoulders their way in.

That transwoman could have joined any cycling club, in this instance. Any club at all. But instead chose to demand entry to the one club that was specifically set up for females. Ask yourself why?

Now you say inclusive, acceptance etc. But that always seems to mean that women only groups cease to exist. So, in reality, there is no compromise. There cannot be. A group is either mixed sex or it isn't. Both are legal, both have their place.

No woman, GC or otherwise, has to accept anything that takes away legal single sex provision if any service.

If you really think about it without the need to be nice, to be accepting, to actually focus on why women want female pursuits then it becomes blindingly obvious that the presence of a single male makes that impossible. And why should women just shrug, smile and accept that?

whatashame2022 · 10/04/2022 12:08

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist
I think you might be reading my post wrongly. I'm on the GC side of wanting female-only activities and am furious about the line certain women in the club are taking on this issue, which is basically turning what was originally a women-only club into a mixed sex club.

The suggestion to my original post was that women like me should just leave. But where do we go? Why should I have to run from my club?

whatashame2022 · 10/04/2022 12:10

And in this case it's a women-only club so the responses are certainly from women in this instance - against women-only meaning single-sex.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 10/04/2022 12:11

Oh! 😳

Sorry @whatashame2022. I was obviously too pissed off to read it twice and read the first line I quoted entirely the opposite way to how you meant it!

Apologies.

Plasmodesmata · 10/04/2022 12:41

It's odd that the whole thread was deleted when the OP was asking for support due to the loss of her access to the club.
I wouldn't have thought this was controversial enough to delete a whole thread rather than just any offending posts.
Did it get derailed? That seems to happen sometimes, a determined derailer can get a whole thread taken down.

Quadzilla · 10/04/2022 13:29

I missed the thread. Did it start this morning? Perhaps MNHQ can help? If you report this thread and ask the question, they should respond.

whatashame2022 · 10/04/2022 14:07

The fact that it was deleted tells me all I need to know about this shit show. Finding out why won't help. So we lose our places in clubs and groups then have our language policed in spaces we're gererously permitted to talk about? I mean ffs.

Slidey23 · 11/04/2022 08:36

@whatashame2022 I do agree with you. Personally I’m a fan of mixed groups for riding but I understand the desire for women-only activities.
You shouldn’t have to leave your club, your club mates are making a mistake. I’m hoping that the tide is now turning (indicated by recent events and more people with influence who are now speaking up).

whatashame2022 · 11/04/2022 08:48

The gist... info about BC's decision was shared to the supposedly women-only cycling group (which is also the club group) and one of the mods/organisers, who also happens to write for the Guardian, piped up about how the club was and always will be inclusive (meaning to trans women) and that they believe "trans women are women". The last part of that comment was later taken down (I am sure a large majority of the organisers are GC) but the rest remained and there were subsequent comments lamenting how trans people (of course they meant the males) were being treated as a consequence of the sport discussions.

My post was about how the tide may be turning at the national level but at the local level - where people are just waking up to this - there is a tendency for groups to double-down on the side of trans women, forgetting entirely that they are supposedly part of a group set up for female participation! There was definitely a "this is not up for discussion" tone to it that any GC members will certainly have been shocked by - and in effect we are pushed out of our clubs and groups by this attitude which is yet to catch up with the idea that being pro-female (and all the reasons women are pushing back) does not equate to anti-trans.

(Hopefully I didn't write anything banned this time!)

Slidey23 · 11/04/2022 08:58

I’m lost for words. That’s awful.

whatashame2022 · 11/04/2022 09:29

Not just this group either. A similar thing happened on the VeloVixen group - also prompted by a discussion of sport - with one woman banned for speaking out to say that they were disappointed the group was no longer single-sex! - so I think there will be more of this to come.

This, with BCs asking volunteers to be reported if they go against the published trans inclusion policy so Breeze leaders can't run single-sex female-only rides (which is really the whole idea of Breeze in the first place) is creating a pretty hostile environment for anyone GC at the grass roots level.

Slidey23 · 11/04/2022 14:28

I’m aware about British Cycling and the Breeze rides and I refuse to support any events or rides supported by them. I’m currently steering new women riders to one of the the (Cycling UK) community groups we have in this area, though I fear they may soon be jumping on the bandwagon too. Not aware of the Velovixen situation though (I got blocked from that page already, over an unrelated disagreement).

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