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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph: Stonewall accused of holding government to ransom

24 replies

ResisterRex · 09/04/2022 20:49

I wish they did share tokens. This is worth reading in full. Surely someone will archive it.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/09/stonewall-accused-holding-no-10-ransom-650000-wasted-cancelled/

In addition to the £650K already spent:

"This newspaper has also learnt that the Cabinet Office signed off £5 million in February 2022 for the Government Equalities Office to bring the conference to fruition.
Official documents seen by The Telegraph show the total "required" budget for 'Safe To Be Me' was £8.1 million, with the remaining £3.1m expected to be approved closer to the time.
The true spending is likely to be higher than £650,000, as this excludes the salaries of at least eighteen civil servants who spent two years planning the event and ministers’ foreign trips to attract delegates and sponsors."

And there's reaction to this:

"Sir John Hayes, a senior Tory MP and former Cabinet Office minister, told The Telegraph: "If money has gone to groups including Stonewall, perhaps we can ask to send them a bill given this is taxpayers money.
"Involving Stonewall in anything like this was bound to lead to trouble. In the end it created the dilemma of not wanting them involved but on the other hand without their involvement, having no conference.
"The conference would clearly have been a facade given Stonewall were so heavily involved in shaping it. It's good that the Government have dropped that from the conversion therapy policy. Let's hope the lessons have been learned and we don't go down this road again, we don't want any of these people organising conferences on the taxpayer.
"Stonewall really needs to have no further involvement in Whitehall.""

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ResisterRex · 09/04/2022 20:59

FPFW are quoted as are SW. But I don't think we are allowed to paste entire articles

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VelvetChairGirl · 09/04/2022 21:00

stonewall need investigating, everything about them

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 09/04/2022 21:02

God HOW much for a conference????

WhiteFire · 09/04/2022 21:06

The article quotes SW saying that Trans individuals are nearly twice as likely to be targeted by conversion therapies, but have they actually defined what conversion therapy is?

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 09/04/2022 21:07

Expensive Tantrums 101

Sexnotgender · 09/04/2022 21:11

18 individuals planned it for 2 YEARS? Wtf…

And FYI, if you click the link then put your phone in flight mode you can read the article.

Olderbadger1 · 09/04/2022 21:15

What with the (failed) attempt to get the EHRC downgraded by the UN, Allison Bailey's trial coming up soon, the CT ban not going their way, the Cass review clearly on the side of caution re GNC kids, and equally clearly concerned that therapists are being prevented from giving these kids a quality service, Boris and co standing up for single-sex spaces, British cycling finding its backbone, and this very public tantrum that achieved absolutely nothing... it's not been a great couple of weeks for everyone's favourite grifters has it? Sad face. On a tilt obvs.

NecessaryScene · 09/04/2022 21:21

To accompany this, for those who didn't see it, here's Malcolm Clarke's take on the conference from a few days ago

It's a huge organised gang heist of taxpayers' money ...and here's how.

twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1511049057153736716

luciatrope · 09/04/2022 21:29

£8.1 million? Gosh, someone's living the good life.

ResisterRex · 09/04/2022 21:39

There's meant to be a protest tomorrow outside no10 about the fact that "trans conversion therapy" wasn't added. Boris is in Ukraine. Or was today anyway. Can't imagine he will be there to watch any of the protest, either way

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/04/2022 21:48

Stonewall and the other lobby groups have become so used to clicking their fingers and everyone asking how high that recent weeks must be rather a shock.
They've completely ignored all the warning signs, have become more outrageous in their demands and seem incapable of any level of self reflection.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/04/2022 22:05

Mr Anderson, the resigned LGBT adviser, described the Government’s reversal as "deeply damaging" and called for "tolerance and respect in our national conversations". He added that he was quitting his role "with a heavy heart" and accused No 10 of waging a "woke war".

The tolerance and respect that has Nancy Kelley referring to GC people and lesbians as akin to sexual racists? That has Michael Brady assuring Mermaids, SW, and others that despite the fact that the NHS review is obliged to accept submissions from women's groups nothing will change? That had Miller committee hearing from Challenor, Bradley et al but no women's groups?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4407033-Jo-Bartosch-in-the-MOS

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4506395-Fears-over-flawed-NHS-single-sex-wards-review-carried-out-by-trans-advocate

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325623-Jess-Bradley-a-government-advisor-on-womens-rights-suspended-by-NUS-over-indecent-blog-Part-iii?pg=5

FannyCann · 09/04/2022 22:19

Hopefully I've done it right and here is an archive link.

archive.ph/2022.04.09-211538/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/09/stonewall-accused-holding-no-10-ransom-650000-wasted-cancelled/

MamaSaidTheredBeDaysLikeThis · 09/04/2022 22:27

Stonewall really needs to have no further involvement in Whitehall."

Agreed.

NitroNine · 10/04/2022 05:11

I’d very much like to see Stonewall’s evidence that Trans people are nearly twice as likely to be targeted by conversion practices - including what they are including under the “conversion practices” umbrella. I assume the stats they are referring to are that 2% of gay and lesbian respondents said they [had] undergone conversion therapy, with 5% reporting they had been offered it. In comparison, 4% of transgender respondents said they had received it, and 8% said they had been offered it.*

It might be terribly cynical of me, but I have a sneaking suspicion that “conversion practices” here = “anything other than instant & absolute affirmation”. Certainly the way the survey was designed means respondents were using their own definitions - & we all know about how “literal violence” works, for example Hmm It also seems hugely counter-intuitive that more trans people would be offered &/or receive conversion therapy when transitioning is considered an acceptable “cure” for homosexuality by multiple demographics who utilise LGB conversion therapy Hmm

There are some pretty big issues with the data - or rather, lack thereof - on the prevalence of conversion therapy in the UK. Including the fact nobody asked if people were being offered conversion therapy for their gender identity or their sexual orientation. So it’s - genuinely, seriously - entirely possible that nobody has ever been offered trans conversion therapy in the UK at all; & it’s simply the case the higher visibility (as it were) of trans people has made them obvious targets for LGB conversion therapy, hence the way the stats skew.

  • Data from 2017 National LGBT Survey.
ResisterRex · 10/04/2022 06:56

Herbert thinks there should be a Royal Commission on trans policies:

Johnson’s LGBT adviser says: take the politics out of transgender debate

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnsons-lgbt-adviser-says-take-the-politics-out-of-transgender-debate-dbz52mvmm

"To prevent the debate on trans rights descending to a “toxic” level, Herbert called for a royal commission. He said it would act “dispassionately” to collect evidence on “contested areas” such as the involvement of trans men and women in single-sex sports, safe spaces for women, and gender identity services for children. It should, he added, be led by a senior judge, comprise members who are “truly neutral”, and be founded with “cross-party support and without predetermination of its direction or outcome”."

This looks potentially damaging. I don't think we need any of this being kicked further and further down the road. We need the Committee on Standards in Public Life to investigate SW's influence and for depts to start following the law as clarified by the EHRC.

The Cass Review must remain separate, which it currently is.

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tabbycatstripy · 10/04/2022 07:05

We don’t need political decisions to be made by unelected anyone, including Stonewall, including judges. We don’t elect our politicians to be neutral. We elect them to do what we want done. Herbert’s proposal is more anti-democratic guff designed to circumvent the fact that he is on the losing side of the argument.

SallyLockheart · 10/04/2022 07:17

He makes this point below but again it is trotting out the trans people are minority and vulnerable. I think trans rights are a dividing line - the line is defending womens rights and that is 51% of the electorate.

“He called on Johnson to ignore those seeking to make trans rights a dividing line in British politics. “Some may tell the government that this is a political opportunity for a wedge issue, but this would be deeply unwise,” he said. “It is one thing to make an issue of statue-toppling and historical revisionism, another to appear to be attacking minorities and vulnerable people. It is also a misreading of public opinion. People want to hear solutions: they don’t see these issues through an ideological lens . . . we have to find a way to take the heat out of this debate.”

EdithStourton · 10/04/2022 07:41

So Anderson the LBGT adviser accused No 10 of waging a "woke war"
Isn't that what Stonewall has been waging for the past several years? Trying to browbeat and bully us into accepting their batshit version of reality with 'no debate', and watching the Twitter pile-ons batter people without uttering a single moderating word?

Not nice for the toughs when people get sick of being bullied, is it?

ResisterRex · 10/04/2022 09:52

Lord Lucas is not in agreement with a Royal Commission

mobile.twitter.com/LordLucasCD/status/1513047205808070656?cxt=HHwWgICz6dmatv8pAAAA

"Good article, but I don’t think that will work. We have to resolve this in the open, where everyone can see. The quiet spaces of a Royal Commission won’t work because that is just the sort of space that Stonewall has used to subvert democracy."

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EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 10/04/2022 10:16

We have to resolve this in the open, where everyone can see. The quiet spaces of a Royal Commission won’t work because that is just the sort of space that Stonewall has used to subvert democracy."

I agree. Dentons would advise all of this should be done in a way that the public can't see and in which it's easy to block the participation of all groups (as in the GRA 2004).

The Denton playbook is powerful.

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/dentons-campaigns-kids-switch-gender-without-parental-approval

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document?s=r

LizzieSiddal · 10/04/2022 10:27

I’m enjoying watching Stonewall beginning to be brought to account. Mermaids next one hopes.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 10/04/2022 10:33

Ahhhh so Nick Herbert is chair of the college of policing - suddenly the strip search guidelines make sense & colour me shocked another gay man unbothered by womens rights

NitroNine · 10/04/2022 13:56

Managed to misread “Lord Lucas” as “Lord Lucan” just then which was… an interesting moment before my brain caught up with itself Confused

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