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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scotland - Women's prisons

25 replies

NonnyMouse1337 · 09/04/2022 11:26

Some of you may recall that we recently had a protest near the women's prison in Polmont. It was to highlight and object to the practice of placing males in women's prisons.

Here's one of the reasons why....

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/trans-murderer-prison-identify-baby-26669658

Some background on this person:

Daniel Eastwood AKA Sophie Eastwood:
Eastwood is a dangerous offender with a history of violent offending. He was convicted of murder in 2004, a crime he committed whilst in prison serving a sentence for dangerous driving, and was sentenced to life imprisonment. In 2018 he ‘transitioned’ was was subsequently transferred to the female estate, where he has remained.

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 09/04/2022 11:35

Surely this has to peak enough people in power and show them how fucked up its got

NonnyMouse1337 · 09/04/2022 11:39

Further information related to Scotland from Keep Prisons Single Sex campaign.

Women’s Prisons are Mixed-Sex Facilities:

The Scottish Prison Service policy on transgender prisoners allows some male prisoners who identify as transgender, including both those with and without Gender Recognition Certificates, to be housed in women’s prisons alongside female offenders. The SPS does not draw a formal distinction between GRC and non-GRC holders: allocation is on the basis of self ID. (Of course this could change as a result of the current policy review.)

This means that women’s prisons are effectively run as mixed-sex facilities. This is wrong. Women in prison are entitled to single-sex provision for the same reasons that all women and girls are: for reasons of dignity, privacy and safety.

The SPS says a male prisoner is only held in the female estate if the risk posed to women in prison is “manageable”. We disagree that this is an acceptable threshold and believe that no male prisoner should ever be held alongside women in prison.

Sex is the most important variable when it comes to analysing offending and risk: this is acknowledged throughout the criminal justice system. Yet here, the SPS believe sex somehow doesn’t matter. It does. It always does.

We believe that we should Keep Prisons Single Sex.

Key Points:

Women make up less that 5% of the total prison population. Most offending is committed by men and it is particularly rare for women to commit serious, violent or sexual offences.

Women in prison are highly vulnerable:

  • Over 30% of female prisoners report a history of sexual abuse

  • Almost 60% of women reported experiencing domestic violence

  • There is a high prevalence of significant head injury amongst female prisoners (78%). Many such injuries are caused by a male partner

  • Almost 50% of female prisoners have mental health problems

  • Rates of self-harm are 5 times higher than in male estate

Women in prison are recognised as being highly traumatised: Why then does the SPS put men in women’s prisons?

Who are the men in women’s prisons?

It is not easy to get information about which men are in women’s prisons and the offences they have committed. The press has reported details of 3 men who have been in women’s prisons under the current policy. Because these details are public, we can use them here:

Peter Laing AKA Paris Green:
In 2013, he was sentenced to a minimum of 18 years for torture and murder. He had already ‘transitioned’ prior to conviction, and was initially sent to HMP Cornton Vale. However, within 5 weeks he was pursuing female prisoners sexually and was moved to the women’s wing of HMP Edinburgh to await ‘reassignment’ surgery. He continued to sexually pursue female prisoners and so was eventually moved to the men’s section of the jail in early 2017. In 2021 he was allegedly refused surgery after the surgeon stated that the risk he poses could not be managed in a hospital setting.

Alan Baker AKA Alex Stewart:
Alan Baker was convicted of murder in 2013 after he killed a man he had met online by stabbing him in the chest at least 16 times. He was sentenced to life imprisonment. By 2018, Baker had ‘transitioned’, changed his name to Alex Stewart and had been transferred to the female estate at HMP Greenock. Although he had had no ‘reassignment’ surgery, he was reported to be showering with the female inmates. He also won the prison’s coveted Miss Fitness Trophy. A prison source elaborated, “Everybody knew it wasn’t very fair, but nobody was allowed to say it. The women inmates have had to accept that Stewart is being allowed to live as a woman, despite not having had surgery. This means [he] is in the showers at the same time as other inmates.” In 2018, Stewart began a relationship with fellow prisoner Daniel Eastwood, AKA Sophie (see below). However, the authorities intervened and Eastwood was transferred from HMP Greenock to the women’s section at HMP Polmont after the pair had sex in front of the female inmates. We believe that he remains in the female estate.

Daniel Eastwood AKA Sophie Eastwood:
Eastwood is a dangerous offender with a history of violent offending. He was convicted of murder in 2004, a crime he committed whilst in prison serving a sentence for dangerous driving, and was sentenced to life imprisonment. In 2018 he ‘transitioned’ was was subsequently transferred to the female estate, where he has remained.

A conviction for a violent or sexual offence is no bar to being housed with women. Neither is having a penis.

“Being transgender” doesn’t make any difference to offending pattern: we know from the MoJ data that 60% of the males who identify as transgender in the male estate in England have at least 1 conviction for sexual offences.

How many men are in women’s prisons?

There are no routinely collected data published on the number of transgender prisoners held in Scottish prisons, nor whether they are accommodated in the male or female estates. What information we have must be obtained via FOIA, or via PQs asked by MSPs. The most recent figures we have state that there are 6 male prisoners held in the female estate in Scotland.

What incidents have occurred in women’s prisons?

From conversations we have had with female offenders and former offenders we know that women report the following:

  • Threatening & sexually aggressive behaviour
  • Exhibitionism & assault
  • Instances of grooming

Women report feeling fear and being unsupported by prison staff who are reluctant to act on their complaints. We have heard of women being told their concerns are transphobic or being instructed that they may not use language to accurately refer to the sex of these male prisoners, because this ‘misgendering’ is bullying. Some have told us that officers’ hand are tied: there is nothing they could do even if they wanted to, because it will be seen as transphobic.

For more information on prisons please see kpssinfo.org

OP posts:
ButlerianJihad · 09/04/2022 11:40

This can't be true

Rightsraptor · 09/04/2022 11:43

Oh it's true.

As an aside, did you know Paris green is the name of a poison? Seriously.

frazzled1 · 09/04/2022 11:51

From the Daily Record link:

A source said: “This prisoner has been difficult and manipulative over the years, which is why she is still behind bars after 17 years.

“She decided that she would ‘trans’ from a man to woman, which is becoming more common in jails these days.

“But this is obviously something else entirely and the Scottish Prison Service has no protocol in place for dealing with prisoners who decide they are babies.”

The source added: “Eastwood is a complex person and intelligent but she is pretty demanding on the resources of the prison and enjoys being the centre of attention.

"It’s difficult to know if she really does feel a natural inclination to be treated like a baby or if it’s just some kind of attention seeking.

Complex and attention seeking male prisoners are not the women's estate's problem to solve.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/04/2022 11:54

Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron features a Dept. of Handicapping to achieve equalities. They had to hand out these measures (weights, face masks, voice changers).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron

In this century, and in the real world, we're telling people not to believe their own eyes and to submit themselves for re-education for their bigotry if their material reality perceptions are out of line with policy.

In the same way that the most successful totalitarian systems of power had people police themselves and others ( 1984, East Germany, Vaclav Havel's Power of the Powerless ) women in prison are being instructed to do this. It's obscene. It will go mainstream in Scotland.

ChristopherHayden · 09/04/2022 11:57

Babies can’t be in prison so as soon as they accept this person is a baby, they will need to release the baby to an appropriate guardian surely?

NonnyMouse1337 · 09/04/2022 12:01

"It’s difficult to know if she really does feel a natural inclination to be treated like a baby or if it’s just some kind of attention seeking.

Really? Is it that difficult? 🙄

OP posts:
ChristopherHayden · 09/04/2022 12:03

@NonnyMouse1337

"It’s difficult to know if she really does feel a natural inclination to be treated like a baby or if it’s just some kind of attention seeking.

Really? Is it that difficult? 🙄

Might be neither. Might be a sexual fetish. The staff shouldn’t have to be made to deal with it, they’re not sex workers.
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/04/2022 12:06

@ChristopherHayden

Babies can’t be in prison so as soon as they accept this person is a baby, they will need to release the baby to an appropriate guardian surely?
This is sounding dangerously close to the paradox that had a transitioning convicted murderer quietly released when there wasn't a secure enough women's prison for someone of that category. (KJ went on to be invited to address the HoL by Lord Patel.)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3370661-2009-case-of-a-judge-ordering-an-intact-male-rapist-into-a-female-prison-because-he-had-a-GRC

Scotland - Women's prisons
littlbrowndog · 09/04/2022 12:29

Thank you from Scottish women for helping prisoners- women prisoners

It’s a fucking disgrace that these men are in beside vulnerable women

ScreamingMeMe · 09/04/2022 12:35

@Rightsraptor

Oh it's true.

As an aside, did you know Paris green is the name of a poison? Seriously.

I didn't. Every day is a school day on Mumsnet.

Complex and attention seeking male prisoners are not the women's estate's problem to solve.

And the best thing to do with attention seekers is...not give them attention ffs.

Apart from the awful consequences for women prisoners, they are letting attention seeking nacissists wrap them round their little fingers - how does this help to rehabilitate them?

I can't believe the sheer stupidly Angry

AlecTrevelyan006 · 09/04/2022 12:37

Bonkers

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/04/2022 12:42

Thank you NonnyMouse1337
We need to keep the rights of women incarcerated the very worst of the male sex in the public eye.

GibbonsGoatsGibbons · 09/04/2022 12:52

FFS

Knowing my SNP MSP this will be nothing to do with him what so ever as that's SPS' job 🙄

I will write (yet) again.

Roseglen84 · 09/04/2022 13:24

It's quite surprising that there are people who think that a man sentenced to many years in prison, who has offended against women and has weird perversions towards women would NOT take advantage of moving to a woman's prison.

I mean, it's a predators dream! Vulnerable women locked up who can't escape from you! And for anyone who says they will be segregated - that didn't stop Karen White from sexually assaulting two female prisoners, presumable in the common areas.

I remember someone who worked in the ( Scottish I think) prison service talking on a podcast about the lengths some prisons would go to regain some control over their lives. Ridiculous things like claiming to be Jewish in order to get kosher food etc.
One man wanted to legally change his name to God so that all the prison officers would have to refer to him as such Hmm.

These guys have all the time in the world and nothing left to lose - it's all a game to them, how to beat the system. And the government is making it easy, at women's expense.

Roseglen84 · 09/04/2022 13:26

*presumably
*prisoners

Dammit, we need an edit button!

InvisibleDragon · 09/04/2022 13:34

The SPS says a male prisoner is only held in the female estate if the risk posed to women in prison is “manageable”.

This, as bad as it sounds, may unfortunately also be nonsense.

There are two main risk assessment tools used for calculating reoffending risks: the HCR-20 assess risk of violence; the RSVP assesses risk of sexual offending.

Both of these assessments are validated against large, diverse populations of male prisoners. They are not used with female prisoners because it is known that male and female offending patterns are different. There also aren't enough violent female offenders to make a similar risk assessment tools for female prisoners.

If a biologically male prisoner identifies as a trans woman, they can argue that the risk assessment tools are no longer appropriate for them. That means they get an ad hoc risk assessment instead, which I believe is less accurate.

IcakethereforeIam · 09/04/2022 13:47

Wasn't there something about female guards refusing to conduct intimate searches of a male prisoner who claimed to be trans? Would a tw guard be allowed to intimately search a female prisoner?

PonyPatter44 · 09/04/2022 15:21

@IcakethereforeIam

Wasn't there something about female guards refusing to conduct intimate searches of a male prisoner who claimed to be trans? Would a tw guard be allowed to intimately search a female prisoner?
As it stands, there is nothing stopping this. By the same token, a male prisoner can identify as female and request to be searched only by female officers (undoubtedly getting a big fucking hard-on from it as well). My solution is to present the 'female' offender with the heftiest , hairiest male officers i can find, and inform 'her' that fortunately Officers Smith, Jones and Khan are all identifying as women today as well, and will therefore be conducting 'her' search.
Thelnebriati · 09/04/2022 15:32

I still don't know why the law allows men with a serious conviction to change their name and legal gender.
And no one can explain how you are supposed to risk assess men when the conviction rate for sexual offences is so low.

Waitwhat23 · 09/04/2022 15:56

With you 100% on this. How anyone can find this crap acceptable is beyond me.

And entirely predictably - www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252

Artichokeleaves · 09/04/2022 15:56

I'd be interested to know if the prison service run around in circles for a man in prison who has a natural inclination to be treated like a baby, or is it only when the TQ+ aspect gets involved that boundaries start to shake?

I have a natural inclination to be treated as Royalty, but frankly that's my problem and if I expect the rest of the world to care or indulge me then I'm going to quickly be disappointed. What does on inside my head is not the job of other people to indulge me in; unless I'm under ten years old or that person is a paid carer because I have some infirmity rendering it impossible for me to manage social and behavioural boundaries appropriately.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/04/2022 19:33

Oh look - the Mail have spotted the self identified baby (in a women's prison?) and that the prison service are taking it seriously.

I'm waiting for Stonewall's press release supporting him.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10702865/Trans-killer-says-identifies-baby-demands-baby-food-dummy-prison-cell.html

InvisibleDragon · 10/04/2022 09:33

IcakethereforeIam
Wasn't there something about female guards refusing to conduct intimate searches of a male prisoner who claimed to be trans? Would a tw guard be allowed to intimately search a female prisoner?

I think this might be from Ireland and it's worse than that. The trans prisoners were uncomfortable with being searched by a female prisoner officer in the presence of a male officer chaperoning ... So the practice was stopped:
thecountess.ie/limerick-prison-the-rights-of-female-prisoners/

The women [sic – trans women] raised concerns that when searches were being conducted a male officer was present in addition to a female officer. International best practice indicates that transgender prisoners should be given a choice regarding the gender of the person conducting a search [emphasis added]. The search should be conducted by a person of the appropriate gender, with minimum interference.

This is from a report into Limerick prison called Covid-19 Thematic Inspection of Limerick Prison - if you Google you can get the pdf of the whole report.

But let's remember that one of the trans women in Limerick prison has 10 convictions for sexual assault. On what planet is it appropriate for a female officer (or even 2 female officers) to be alone with this person and performing an intimate search? It just discards all normal risk management practices.

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