Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Holly Lawford Smith's new book

26 replies

Awkwardy · 08/04/2022 09:25

Pleased to see 'Gender Critical Feminism' now available for pre-ordering: hollylawford-smith.org/

But before anyone has even had a chance to read it, guess what?

BOYCOTT OUP! twitter.com/jthomastremblay/status/1512212885627236352

I'm not surprised though. "No debate" is wearing a bit thin lads.

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 08/04/2022 09:35

Imagine OUP shaking in their boots.

NancyDrawed · 08/04/2022 09:42

I have just pre-ordered a copy.

I wonder whether the tantrumming TRAs on Twitter realise how bad their approach looks?

Surely if you are confident that your stance is correct, you would welcome challenges from an opposing side?

Awkwardy · 08/04/2022 09:47

Exactly @NancyDrawed. I am all in favour of someone challenging my knowledge and assumptions. I try to look at everything with an open mind.

They used to say - go away and educate yourself. We did that, and came back with more questions. So now we are back to Boycott The Evils!

OP posts:
ScreamingMeMe · 08/04/2022 10:02

If a woman used this sort of language about misogyny, we'd surely be accused of 'hysteria'.

I know HLS has been under attack from people like this for a long time, and it must be so wearing.

Holly Lawford Smith's new book
Holly Lawford Smith's new book
peonyred · 08/04/2022 10:12

Just ordered it too. Everyone I read a TRA trying to boycott a book by a woman, I buy it. When will they learn????

nightwakingmoon · 08/04/2022 10:22

Didn’t know about this - have just preordered too! Thanks TRAs Grin

ZaraSizeMedium · 08/04/2022 10:57

I’d love to order this but can’t justify paying £11 for shipping, even with the 30% discount on the book.

I wonder if my local library will order it in for me, might give that a try.

Artichokeleaves · 08/04/2022 11:00

Women's lives aren't fodder for misogyny, redefinition, endless debate on their existence and what creates them and how their biology is irrelevant and - well basically why male desire should be the determining factor at all times.

But that part never seems to matter to those busy shouting 'how dare you insult people by debating this!'

Awkwardy · 08/04/2022 21:39

Just catching up. Well, twitter did its thing today, didn't it?

OP posts:
Boadicea2 · 26/04/2022 12:51

I've just had a notification from OUP that this is "back-ordered" and "currently unavailable" . Anyone know anything else about it? Has it actually been cancelled?

LeniGray · 26/04/2022 13:05

Boadicea2 · 26/04/2022 12:51

I've just had a notification from OUP that this is "back-ordered" and "currently unavailable" . Anyone know anything else about it? Has it actually been cancelled?

It’s not available yet, the publication date is the 12 May.

SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 14:41

I think it's an excellent idea to ask your local library to order a copy, @ZaraSizeMedium

It looks like a very useful reference book about an important social movement, 'essential reading', etc (if they ask). (Limited book budgets and all that.)

Zerogravity · 18/08/2022 07:48

Just bumping this as I know there was a discount code for ordering it from OUP but can't find it now. Does anyone have it?

halohell · 18/08/2022 09:45

Zerogravity · 18/08/2022 07:48

Just bumping this as I know there was a discount code for ordering it from OUP but can't find it now. Does anyone have it?

When I ordered it in April I used AAFLYG6 for 30% off, but I've no idea if it's still valid.

RoyalCorgi · 18/08/2022 11:53

Sorry this doesn't answer your question but want to bump this thread to ask another question.

There's been a book mentioned a few times on this forum. It's an American book about how political elites often get public opinion wrong because people tend to lie about what they believe for reasons of social conformity. The book cites Vaclav Havel's famous example of the greengrocer's sign reading "Workers of the world, unite!"

I'd like to read the book but I can't for the life of me remember what it's called. Anyone?

ArabellaScott · 18/08/2022 12:38

I think @EmbarrassingHadrosaurus might know!

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/08/2022 16:15

RoyalCorgi · 18/08/2022 11:53

Sorry this doesn't answer your question but want to bump this thread to ask another question.

There's been a book mentioned a few times on this forum. It's an American book about how political elites often get public opinion wrong because people tend to lie about what they believe for reasons of social conformity. The book cites Vaclav Havel's famous example of the greengrocer's sign reading "Workers of the world, unite!"

I'd like to read the book but I can't for the life of me remember what it's called. Anyone?

Thank you @ArabellaScott - I think the book is this :)

www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674707580

Preference falsification, according to the economist Timur Kuran, is the act of misrepresenting one’s wants under perceived social pressures. It happens frequently in everyday life, such as when we tell the host of a dinner party that we are enjoying the food when we actually find it bland. In Private Truths, Public Lies, Kuran argues convincingly that the phenomenon not only is ubiquitous but has huge social and political consequences. Drawing on diverse intellectual traditions, including those rooted in economics, psychology, sociology, and political science, Kuran provides a unified theory of how preference falsification shapes collective decisions, orients structural change, sustains social stability, distorts human knowledge, and conceals political possibilities.

A common effect of preference falsification is the preservation of widely disliked structures. Another is the conferment of an aura of stability on structures vulnerable to sudden collapse. When the support of a policy, tradition, or regime is largely contrived, a minor event may activate a bandwagon that generates massive yet unanticipated change.

In distorting public opinion, preference falsification also corrupts public discourse and, hence, human knowledge. So structures held in place by preference falsification may, if the condition lasts long enough, achieve increasingly genuine acceptance. The book demonstrates how human knowledge and social structures co-evolve in complex and imperfectly predictable ways, without any guarantee of social efficiency.

Amazon offers a very helpful Look Inside.

www.amazon.co.uk/Private-Truths-Public-Lies-Falsification/dp/0674707583/

RoyalCorgi · 18/08/2022 16:27

Yes - that's it EmbarrassingHadrosaurus! Thanks so much. Gotta love Mumsnet.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/08/2022 16:32

RoyalCorgi · 18/08/2022 16:27

Yes - that's it EmbarrassingHadrosaurus! Thanks so much. Gotta love Mumsnet.

I feel obliged to chip in with recent additional commentary on preference falsification from Cass Sunstein. It's outlined here in a discussion of Sunstein's How Change Happens.

80000hours.org/podcast/episodes/cass-sunstein-how-change-happens/

ArabellaScott · 18/08/2022 16:38

I wonder if 'manufacturing consent' has anything to do with this, also?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

archive.org/details/dom-25409-manufacturingconsentnoamchomsk

Reading that, this also looks interesting:

'Public Opinion' by Walter Lippman

archive.org/details/publicopinion00lipp

Now I have fallen down a rabbit hole. Send sandwiches.

TheBikiniExpert · 18/08/2022 21:28

halohell · 18/08/2022 09:45

When I ordered it in April I used AAFLYG6 for 30% off, but I've no idea if it's still valid.

Still works - thanks!

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/08/2022 21:36

TheBikiniExpert · 18/08/2022 21:28

Still works - thanks!

If that still works, it might be cheaper than Amazon for some people.

www.amazon.co.uk/Gender-Critical-Feminism-Holly-Lawford-Smith/dp/0198863888/

Blister · 18/08/2022 23:29

Anyone know if there'll be a paperback eventually? even with 30% off, it's still a bit steep for me.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/08/2022 23:40

Blister · 18/08/2022 23:29

Anyone know if there'll be a paperback eventually? even with 30% off, it's still a bit steep for me.

Requesting it through your lending library will boost it while it becomes clearer as to whether there's a plan for a softback.

Blister · 19/08/2022 00:26

Thanks! I've never had to request a book before. I'll give it a go.

Swipe left for the next trending thread