'Multiple sets of pronouns' article - she/they etc. in their own words

[NoWireHangersEver]

www.them.us/story/multiple-sets-of-pronouns

It's not often that you get people of this background providing detailed explanations of what gender means to them or what pronouns actually do (beyond TWAW, the usual threats etc)

This article is really useful for that reason, but the consistent attitude to women makes me so depressed - the insinuation that someone cannot be female and be referred to as female while still 'containing multitudes'. eg:

"Using multiple sets of pronouns interchangeably is how I affirm and honor the multitudes that my spirit and personality contain."

"Using she/they pronouns is a way for me to affirm that my womanhood is not binary and cannot be understood within cisheteronormative understandings of what it means to be a woman; I am a woman, sure, but I am also so much more." (from a transwoman)

"I love hearing myself referred to as both she and he because they convey the divine femininity and masculinity that I feel every day."

"For me, they embodies my wholeness, which is a mix of masc and femme energy that resides outside of the binary."

Honestly revealing and disturbing - makes me wonder how, eg, my bio female nonbinary supervisor perceives me and other women I work with. In these people's minds, are 'cis' women thought of as lacking in wholeness? We're being talked about as if we are dysfunctional beings...

I become a queer little problem for anyone — indeed any system — aiming to absorb the rupture wrought by non-binaryness by casting it as a third gender

But hang on I thought traditional societies who have a third gender are wonderful and wise and so much better than narrow western colonialist concepts blah blah de blah?

:o at the torture device. It’s today’s Vogon poetry.

Pronouns are so boring. And how do you use them when you're talking to someone anyway?

"Using multiple sets of pronouns interchangeably is how I affirm and honor the multitudes that my spirit and personality contain."

I do not have the time or the energy to spare to indulge someone in all this, I just don't.

They is misunderstanding what pronouns signal for people. No-ones womanhood is binary. No-one buys into the old-fashioned ideas about what being a woman means (well jut about no-one). They does not have to signal this with complicated pronouns. If they challenged their own preconceptions they would find that it is not necessary for they to go down this route in order to challenge sexist stereotypes. They might also find that taking this route is setting the scene for more forcing of these stereotypes on other women.

I still don't follow how bespoke pronouns are supposed to be used when talking to someone. Unless you converse like a Beckett-like character. When talking about someone sure, though for these individuals I'd probably use 'that w@#$er!'.

@BorisBooster

My pronoun today is Bitch.

Had shit day.

😂

I saw a good line on Reddit the other day:

"I identify as a Threat and my pronouns are: try/me."

So tiring to read through all that. The sex roles, norms and stereotypes feminists have fought for a very long time have now come back as the woke way to view what women might be. And somehow the assumption is that sexism and misogyny can disappear by private demands to have one particular person excluded from them if that person gives different pronouns. Never mind how the rest of us are going to be treated.

They’ve managed to get Whitman dreadfully confused. I suppose if you’re of a narcissistic bent it’s impossible to understand that I am large, I contain multitudes is simply a reference to the narrator being formed by all that has gone before him (just as he will help influence & shape what follows after him). It’s not a claim to be the very most special & fascinating person ever…

I need a 'like' button, NitroNine

”I respond to folks who ask me which pronouns to use by not really giving them what they really want, an out”

What nonsense is this, are we supposed to magically know the word salad by which they “identify”? We mustn’t get their pronouns wrong otherwise it’s misgendering/literal violence/some such other tosh, they we mustn’t ask either? . That article is the most self-absorbed pile of attention-seeking wankery I’ve ever clapped eyes on.

[The religious aspect is] fascinating and also frightening.

Quite. It all gets a bit…Gilead.

I have no time for any of those insufferable people.

"For me, they embodies my wholeness, which is a mix of masc and femme energy that resides outside of the binary."... Well DUH! Welcome to reality. We're all a mix of "masc and femme" for God's sake, we just dont feel the need to go on about it. It's such BS!

@Fimofriend

I saw a good line on Reddit the other day:

"I identify as a Threat and my pronouns are: try/me."

Oh, I like that.

Name changed as this is a bit outing.

I am gender critical and use she/they pronouns.

I am biologically female, I think sex matters, and I see gender as a hierarchy which we should be trying to dismantle, not reinforce.

I support referring to sex only when it is relevant (e.g. healthcare, single-sex services, discussing oppression). In many everyday situations, ‘they’ would do perfectly well. I’d like ‘they’ to become a common pronoun, but not compulsory, in situations where a person’s sex is not relevant. So just as Ms has become a popular title for women who don’t want to disclose their marital status, I’d like “they” to be available for people who don’t want to refer to their biological sex unless it’s relevant.

She/they pronouns for me allow me to indicate that I am biologically female, but that where my sex is not relevant I feel no need to refer to it. For me, using she/they also means that I’m happy for others to use either pronoun as they wish.

@Fimofriend

I saw a good line on Reddit the other day:

"I identify as a Threat and my pronouns are: try/me."

@Deliriumoftheendless

Does Private Eye still have Pseud’s Corner?

It would need a full-length Pseuds Special Issue to deal with all these!

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

They is misunderstanding what pronouns signal for people. No-ones womanhood is binary. No-one buys into the old-fashioned ideas about what being a woman means (well jut about no-one). They does not have to signal this with complicated pronouns. If they challenged their own preconceptions they would find that it is not necessary for they to go down this route in order to challenge sexist stereotypes. They might also find that taking this route is setting the scene for more forcing of these stereotypes on other women.

No. That’s too realistic, shows too much concern for others, and fails to recognise the speaker’s super-unique specialness.

If I am having to ask you which variety of pronouns to use on any given day, and then also not to push if you do t answer, but assume you'll push if it's not the ones you want, surely, this is to be seen for the narcissistic attention grabbing shite it is. I'm happy to use preferred pronouns, but I'm not happy to change them and ask them hourly on your whim and need to be someone else.

solipsegender. These people are utterly self-obsessed

I tried to read it because I like to try read from differing view points. But this and many other things I've tried to read from the pronoun people is just makes me go "um, what?" So I gave up.
It's tiring to read, it must be exhausting to live. Don't these people have hobbies that don't involve thinking solely about theys identity ? Don't they have any problems? Do they not appreciate that it's such a luxury to have so much time to think about theyself?

@Cispicious

Name changed as this is a bit outing.

I am gender critical and use she/they pronouns.

I am biologically female, I think sex matters, and I see gender as a hierarchy which we should be trying to dismantle, not reinforce.

I support referring to sex only when it is relevant (e.g. healthcare, single-sex services, discussing oppression). In many everyday situations, ‘they’ would do perfectly well. I’d like ‘they’ to become a common pronoun, but not compulsory, in situations where a person’s sex is not relevant. So just as Ms has become a popular title for women who don’t want to disclose their marital status, I’d like “they” to be available for people who don’t want to refer to their biological sex unless it’s relevant.

She/they pronouns for me allow me to indicate that I am biologically female, but that where my sex is not relevant I feel no need to refer to it. For me, using she/they also means that I’m happy for others to use either pronoun as they wish.

I agree with this in theory, but unless you carefully explain what you mean, I do not think that this is what most people understand when they see 'she/they' in a signature for example.