Pullman’s at it again

[tabbycatstripy]

Tweets: “To ban conversion therapy, so-called, is good. To make a deliberate exception for trans people is pure, cold-eyed evil. No justification, no reason, no excuse: just to appease the transphobes. Evil.”

Arrogant, under-informed, not as smart as he thinks? Or what?

The man can read. Why won’t he?

He got a third at Oxford in English Literature. I didn’t think that was possible.

Sometimes I wonder if he just spouts this shit to appear in opposition to the far superior JKR so that he can appear to be a hero from his safe and popular transactivist throne (and sell more of his boring worthy books)

He doesn't have a visible beard but he certainly is a beardy fart mumbler on Twitter.

I suspect that this is entirely driven by jealousy of JK Rowling combined with standard Twitter derangement. He may be having some Wormtongue types in his responses talking about how much better he is than JKR, how great it is that their childhood favourite author is saying trans rights, etc. So he’s finally found a way to feel superior to the woman whose work in the same genre as his is massively more beloved and massively outsells his.

Men are wildly irrational when their ego is threatened.

Crossover post, LittleWhingingwoman!

@Absurdle

Crossover post, LittleWhingingwoman!

Snap! X

Yes, it was telling, the number of less well known writers with no apparent skin in the game or track record of involvement in LGBTQ issues who jumped on the chance to attack JKR, the biggest tree in the forest for most of their careers, evidently without bothering to actually read or think about what she said.

Teenagers and young people identifying as trans or non-binary is very big in fantasy and TV and film franchise fandom at the moment (there's a good thread on Ovarit, 'the Fantasy to Trans pipeline') and it's a wagon some writers, showrunners and actors are hitching themselves to. I wonder, too, if it's awareness of that - things like the fanart of Harry Potter in breast binders or mastectomy scars, and the way young people can get so immersed in fantasy worlds - that may have prompted J. K. Rowling to speak up about it.

@IvyTwines

Yes, it was telling, the number of less well known writers with no apparent skin in the game or track record of involvement in LGBTQ issues who jumped on the chance to attack JKR, the biggest tree in the forest for most of their careers, evidently without bothering to actually read or think about what she said.

Teenagers and young people identifying as trans or non-binary is very big in fantasy and TV and film franchise fandom at the moment (there's a good thread on Ovarit, 'the Fantasy to Trans pipeline') and it's a wagon some writers, showrunners and actors are hitching themselves to. I wonder, too, if it's awareness of that - things like the fanart of Harry Potter in breast binders or mastectomy scars, and the way young people can get so immersed in fantasy worlds - that may have prompted J. K. Rowling to speak up about it.

Neil Gaiman being a stand out too. The man who broke covid rules and left his wife and young child in an epidemic. What an example of bravery and courage.

When this stuff hits the wall and public opinion no longer supports these gender fanatics, will Pullman be able to keep his career? I don't think he could have stood the bullying and harassment that JKR has recieved. Mind you, no one has given him rape threats have they?

Is it a case of someone simply subscribing to their tribe's approved beliefs? I'm ashamed to admit that as a "lefty" I never used to do much questioning of the "approved" position on a wide range of issues.

I am part of this tribe. This tribe believes X. I believe X.

The debate of the past few years has done my head in. It's the discovery that some people's moral compass points in completely the opposite direction. Pullman's use of the word "evil" to describe the government's decision is remarkably strong, but I've no doubt he believes it - just as firmly as I believe that an affirmative approach to gender dysphoric is itself evil.

The idea of casually telling children that they can become the opposite sex and giving them potentially dangerous hormones that could destroy their fertility is absolutely horrific.

Yet Pullman and many others like him find my view to be beyond the pale. I can't understand how two groups of people brought up in the same society, with the same kind of education and cultural background, can have such polar opposite views on what is good and what is evil.

The idea of casually telling children that they can become the opposite sex and giving them potentially dangerous hormones that could destroy their fertility is absolutely horrific.

Yes.

Yet Pullman and many others like him find my view to be beyond the pale. I can't understand how two groups of people brought up in the same society, with the same kind of education and cultural background, can have such polar opposite views on what is good and what is evil.

I find it hard to enter their mindset as well. I just listened to Kay Burley on Sky asking Javid about conversion therapy, and she actually asked him, ‘Is it acceptable to give someone electric shocks to change their gender identity’? I was aghast. Javid looked confused but he should have pushed back hard on the question. That’s not what anyone is supporting and it’s already deeply illegal.

So maybe they believe this is what is meant by ‘conversion therapy’? Maybe they come to their conclusions via faulty reasoning.

She’s also been terrified by the stats around suicidal thoughts which are so often quoted around this subject.

Be kind to your friend, there's nothing like having a child that attempts or threatens suicide, to make you throw any preconceived notions out the window. You just do what you think will keep them safe, my parenting has gone to hell since this happened to us (it wasn't gender related) and the worry never leaves you.

Back to the topic. I'm a huge Pullman fan and thought he would get this, I know a pp floated the idea that his daemon ideology links with him being on board with gender fluidity. But I think the opposite, the daemon is fluid until puberty, which pretty much ties in with childhood. There are fewer differences between the sexes up until puberty, when the differences are far more apparent.
He was a teacher, he knows children and must see the dangers of what is happening, I suspect most teachers see it, even if they are forced to tick the boxes and affirm.

@DalarnaHorses Be kind to your friend, there's nothing like having a child that attempts or threatens suicide, to make you throw any preconceived notions out the window. You just do what you think will keep them safe, my parenting has gone to hell since this happened to us (it wasn't gender related) and the worry never leaves you.

Yes indeed, I know this all too well myself (again not gender-related) and would not dream of being unkind to her.

Pullman? As in Philip Pullman? Hmmm I've found his book 'Belle Sauvage' really uncomfortable to read; So I'm not really surprised by his views.

What made you uncomfortable? I’m careful what I say but his books (although they’re good) give me a similar feeling.

Extraordinary hyperbole

How old is he these days? Is he still compus mentis?

75. I think he’s all there tbh.

@ClaudiusTheGod

Apologies, I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't be kind. It's just all too near the surface for me at the moment. I'm sorry you are going through this too.

@tabbycatstripy

He got a third at Oxford in English Literature. I didn’t think that was possible.

Isn't that like TCD moderatorship BA? You do a 4 years honours degree. If you get less than a 2.2 (i.e a 'third'), it means you have effectively failed the 'honours' part of it. I think you still get a degree though, just not with honours.

You're not alluding to the nuts and bolts, I think. I waded in without assessing the temperature of the water.

@Cailleach1 it’s an honours degree, just the lowest class. It is possible to go even lower at Oxford without failing - that is the ‘pass’ degree (rather than a Third) which is not an honours degree.

@ChopinBoard

Is it a case of someone simply subscribing to their tribe's approved beliefs? I'm ashamed to admit that as a "lefty" I never used to do much questioning of the "approved" position on a wide range of issues.

I am part of this tribe. This tribe believes X. I believe X.

I think that's the main thing for people like Pullman. A lot of liberal progressivism is, or has become anyway, very lazy.

Thinking about some of the political threads at the moment, I wonder if part isn't because of the lazy "evil Tories/Republicans/conservatives rhetoric. So people feel no real challenge to support their own views in a really robust way. By which I mean intellectually well founded way.

@RoyalCorgi

The debate of the past few years has done my head in. It's the discovery that some people's moral compass points in completely the opposite direction. Pullman's use of the word "evil" to describe the government's decision is remarkably strong, but I've no doubt he believes it - just as firmly as I believe that an affirmative approach to gender dysphoric is itself evil.

The idea of casually telling children that they can become the opposite sex and giving them potentially dangerous hormones that could destroy their fertility is absolutely horrific.

Yet Pullman and many others like him find my view to be beyond the pale. I can't understand how two groups of people brought up in the same society, with the same kind of education and cultural background, can have such polar opposite views on what is good and what is evil.

As far as I can see it comes down to some basic assumptions.

They believe that there is some scientific/medical element, similar to intersex. So in a concrete way truly trans people really are the opposite sex more than the one they appear to be on the outside.

That people should be allowed to be "who they really are".

That the medical establishment has based its treatment of gender dysphoric children on robust evidence based research.

That when they talk of conversion therapy they mean something like electric shocks or weird priests drowning people in holy water.

I'd also say that in a lot of cases people like this have a fairly surface view of a lot of other identity politics type issues and they tend to support their thinking on gender

@DalarnaHorses

She’s also been terrified by the stats around suicidal thoughts which are so often quoted around this subject.

Be kind to your friend, there's nothing like having a child that attempts or threatens suicide, to make you throw any preconceived notions out the window. You just do what you think will keep them safe, my parenting has gone to hell since this happened to us (it wasn't gender related) and the worry never leaves you.

Back to the topic. I'm a huge Pullman fan and thought he would get this, I know a pp floated the idea that his daemon ideology links with him being on board with gender fluidity. But I think the opposite, the daemon is fluid until puberty, which pretty much ties in with childhood. There are fewer differences between the sexes up until puberty, when the differences are far more apparent.
He was a teacher, he knows children and must see the dangers of what is happening, I suspect most teachers see it, even if they are forced to tick the boxes and affirm.

Hi, my interpretation was that he isn't on board with the idea of fluidity once you hit puberty, that your personality / identity then, at that point, is how you'll be for life, and that therefore he'd be fine with the idea of transitioning teenagers because he can't conceive of them changing their mind as they grow older.

One of the many contradictions of gender ideology is that on the one hand some talk of 'fluidity' but they are very keen to rush children into a course of surgical and chemical interventions that will take away the option of fluidity.

[quote ClaudiusTheGod]@Cailleach1 it’s an honours degree, just the lowest class. It is possible to go even lower at Oxford without failing - that is the ‘pass’ degree (rather than a Third) which is not an honours degree.[/quote]
Thanks. I stand corrected. Every day is a school day!