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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

WSJ2023 scouts the most inclusive jamboree

10 replies

sickofthisnonsense · 05/04/2022 18:04

www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/running-your-section/international-scouts-and-events/international-events/wsj/25wsj-resources/wellbeing-and-inclusion/nov-2021-sharing-pronouns/

Ffs!

Eldest has been selected, apart for worrying*about fundraising now there's this nonsense too.

Turned up at their first contingent event and all the kids had pronouns on their name badges. This prompted me to ask about whether they will be segregating by sex or gender identity and guess what? Gender wooo wins again.
Waiting to hear if the actual Jamboree site in South Korea will have single sex facilities or not.

Trying to word an email that doesn't get me dismissed as a Terf.

They are so painfully captured it hurts

OP posts:
Noisyprat · 05/04/2022 18:09

Madness, thank goodness mine aren't involved in scouts! It's interesting, this morning a trans person on the radio said that they shouldn't have to use separate facilities, toilets etc, because it outs them as trans. However evidently having your pronouns proudly displayed on a badge doesn't out you as anything!

sickofthisnonsense · 05/04/2022 18:13

The kids were not asked if they were happy to have their pronouns displayed.

I actively choose rather not say if a pronoun question must be answered on any forms.

Also the guidance is quite clear on segregation.

OP posts:
sickofthisnonsense · 05/04/2022 18:13

Sorry posted when I meant to paste

These practical ideas will help you to make sure everyone feels comfortable:
• Providing mixed-gender (also known as ‘gender neutral’) toilets wherever possible
• Re-labelling one set of toilets, or an accessible toilet, as gender-neutral
• Using venues with self-contained or individual toilet and shower cubicles that can be used by anyone
• Designating a private changing space for anyone who needs to use it
• Creating partitions using sheets or screens in changing areas so that all members can have privacy
• Developing a rota so that everyone can have private bathing / bathroom time

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 05/04/2022 19:04

“We resign from Scouts”?

I’m sorry (I know kids love the activities) but this ideology is damaging to them.

Toseland · 05/04/2022 20:25

Bloody hell, our lives are being ruined - not the Scouts :(

NitroNine · 05/04/2022 21:20

Oh FFS. There are a significant number of Muslim Scout groups in the UK. They will simply be unable to participate in events outside those for Muslim Scouts because of the needs - which are protected in law - of many of their members to have access to single-sex spaces.

This doesn’t make everyone feel comfortable. It makes the group of people who have been taught their feelings & desires are to be privileged over everybody else’s more comfortable.

  • Girls & women have a multitude of reasons for wanting single-sex toilets.
  • The “accessible” toilets were campaigned for by disabled people so they could leave the house for longer than the limits set by their bladders & bowels - they are not, unless they are the only toilet on the premises, meant for everyone to use - the Scouts shouldn’t ever be encouraging that. It’s shitty enough practice to put the only baby change facilities for a venue in there (particularly when they’re at a height wheelchair users can’t actually reach) but the language-blur of “accessible” doesn’t change the reality of “doing this will cause disabled people to soil themselves in public”. No, you can’t ever guarantee that the disabled toilet will be empty; & on average people who need to use those facilities - whether it’s because they need carer support to toilet, they use a wheelchair, they have a catheter or colostomy bag to manage, they just need to use the grab rails, or anything else - can’t nip in & out; but those things mean you rely on abled people not clarting the place up. And disabled people shouldn’t have to explain our strategies for toileting to abled people who think “but you might have to wait for a disabled person” is a good reason to “just nip into” the “accessible” loo.
  • Just magic up some new venues. Excellent plan.
  • Everyone deserves privacy & dignity when it comes to bathing & changing. But they also deserve to have access to single-sex spaces for those things & crucially, for sleeping.

Forcing Scouting volunteers to try to come up with solutions to what shouldn’t be a problem is grossly unfair. I don’t blame at all those volunteers who won’t run residential events or take part in large-scale ones (in Scouting or Guiding) because they feel unable to safeguard their young members.

Scouts & Guides might well have excellent & comprehensive insurance, but money wouldn’t help the girls I continue to hope won’t end up having to claim against them. It does seem it can only be a matter of time though, courtesy of “who needs safeguarding when we have GenderWoo?!” Angry

I’m so sorry @sickofthisnonsense - this should be pure excitement for you & your eldest DC & instead it’s marred by worries about the safety of the event. As for pronouns on badges without consent, that’s a huge issue even if one is A Believer - if one of them had changed pronouns, or their chosen pronouns are other than those parents put on the paperwork… and how distressing for the agender: some people do demand no pronouns be used, but a case could absolutely be made that while most will use those that align with their sex, forcing agender people to be labelled with a pronoun understood to relate to gender would cause them distress. I’d certainly find being made to wear anything about my “gender identity” distressing because I do not have one, so I would be being forced into a lie. Poor choice, Scouts.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 06/04/2022 00:27

Whether you want to add your personal pronouns to your social media or email signature is totally up to you. You should never feel pressured one way or the other.
From the article -
Whether you want to add your personal pronouns to your social media or email signature is totally up to you. You should never feel pressured one way or the other.
So just don't add them then.
Then those Scouts who do want to add them still can.

sickofthisnonsense · 06/04/2022 10:02

I pronouns are the tip of the iceberg.
The wedge in the crack

They were on the name badges from the start - the children were not asked if that was okay

OP posts:
Somanysocks · 06/04/2022 10:30

Bat/shit

trainnane · 08/04/2022 09:31

I've never had issues with whatever people wanted to do and my DC have happy not bothered or commented on a boy in their beaver group who dressed as a girl. The child gave up cubs after a short while. Non event.
But suggesting to all preteens that they need to reflect in the group on their gender and share their thoughts on it and then wear it on a badge is horrendous. It's a confusing time for them around body charges & finding how they fit in at high schools etc already. It's just not needed or helpful.

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