New Statesman - Inside Labour's clusterf*** on trans rights

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www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour/2022/04/inside-labours-clusterfuck-week-on-trans-rights

www.spiked-online.com/2022/02/18/we-cant-leave-democracy-to-the-electorate/

This is about Foxy and the GLP but I feel it’s a similar attitude that a lot in the Labour Party have.

@donquixotedelamancha

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall hearing or seeing a quote of Lisa Nandy saying that trans (women, or was it anyone trans?) should be able to choose which prison they go into.

Yes, that was the answer, but the context is much worse. She was specifically asked about rapists and her answer was to put rapists who self identify as women into women's prisons, if they wanted.

There is a video knocking about of it. I think Julia Long asked the question.

It is on the Venice Allen you tube page. Another fabulous woman.

"...most of their Jewish voters have had enough, and now they're losing female votes. Do they actually want to get elected, or is it just more fun to sit on the opposition benches taking swings at the Tories."

Excellent point, actually. Does Labour want to be elected?
With perennial clusterfucks of things being proposed to potential voters?
Sitting on your arse, jeering at Tories and bleating on about social justice for all and now and, of course, globally is much more fun.
It's a performative art. Requires no competencies to speak of or effort

• you just need to shout about the right stuff at the right moments at the right people and be nice to the right people at the right moments.

And say to absolutely everybody that this is what a kinder, gentler politics looks like. And not a fucking penny of your taxes spent. Very easy. It's a show business venture, essentially. Only by really stupid and talentless people. However, very nice and pleasant in general. Labour's so dead now because they just haven't a clue what life (in all its forms) actually looks like. They translated normal, ordinary life into a series/clusters of phobias and moral spasms that, we collectively as the public, need to be treated for. And cured. Labour is like some sort of alternative medicine. For any condition. Won't fucking work but you'll get so busy using & applying it that you'll forget what - if anything - was wrong with you in the first place.

They aren’t defending LGBTQ rights.

A lot of the female type humans with major concerns trying to get Labour to listen about this are LGBT+ people. I am. But whenever I raise that it turns out I'm the wrong kind of LGBT people.

Which convinces me further that it's another term that has been redefined and no longer means a wide range of diverse people who just have the characteristic of homosexuality in common; now in the minds of these politicians it means 'people who all share in one political belief system' and therefore excludes homosexual people from the group if they have other needs, issues, intersectionalities, beliefs.

Like female humans are now excluded from the group of 'women' unless they're privileged enough to be politically compliant with male centrism.

This is as far from the ethics Labour was built on as it is possible to get.

So when they wibble on about how they are the champions of LGBTQ+ rights, they don't mean what they'd like you to think they mean.

They are however hopeful that you don't notice that they don't mean what you think they mean.

Because it's jolly nice marketing.

@PeskyBaboon

"...most of their Jewish voters have had enough, and now they're losing female votes. Do they actually want to get elected, or is it just more fun to sit on the opposition benches taking swings at the Tories."

Excellent point, actually. Does Labour want to be elected?
With perennial clusterfucks of things being proposed to potential voters?
Sitting on your arse, jeering at Tories and bleating on about social justice for all and now and, of course, globally is much more fun.
It's a performative art. Requires no competencies to speak of or effort

• you just need to shout about the right stuff at the right moments at the right people and be nice to the right people at the right moments.

And say to absolutely everybody that this is what a kinder, gentler politics looks like. And not a fucking penny of your taxes spent. Very easy. It's a show business venture, essentially. Only by really stupid and talentless people. However, very nice and pleasant in general. Labour's so dead now because they just haven't a clue what life (in all its forms) actually looks like. They translated normal, ordinary life into a series/clusters of phobias and moral spasms that, we collectively as the public, need to be treated for. And cured. Labour is like some sort of alternative medicine. For any condition. Won't fucking work but you'll get so busy using & applying it that you'll forget what - if anything - was wrong with you in the first place.

Stands up to applaud.

This.

Now, whenever the controversial policy on Gender Recognition Act reforms comes up, Labour politicians emphasise that the legal power of places such as domestic abuse refuges to exclude trans women — on a proportionate, case-by-case basis — under the Equality Act would remain unchanged by Labour.

Oh really? Can't say I've heard this. I'd need a specific commitment, with a clear definition of woman being adult human female. Once bitten, twice shy, chaps.

Do you think it would make any difference if Labour had made any point about standing against violence to women and girls? That horrible statistic of 2 women being killed every week seems so static, rape and sexual assault seems to have been largely decriminalised. If Labour had a long standing policy of how they were going to tackle violence against women do you think women might be more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt on this?

That article is really quite remarkable in how little it actually focuses on women or women's rights. Vaginas and penises get quite a few mentions. Trans rights quite a few mentions. Labour's sorrow that 'people aren't happy about LGBT+ rights being talked about' is mentioned. As is the over used trope (autocorrected to tripe there which seems rather apt) about there being other things to worry about.

yes.... almost as if we are irrelevant......

as you were....

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

They also see it as a diversion tactic when voters are breaking down in tears about the cost-of-living crisis in focus groups and never bring up trans issues in such settings

This perfectly encapsulates Labour's incompetence on the issue.

Firstly, the assumption that women's rights are a low priority nice-to-have, to be addressed once every other problem in the world is sorted, when instead, they are fundamental to the solving of those problems, as well of being an issue of equal moral value to poverty etc. We've been hearing this since the first campaigns for suffrage - 'Pipe down, Ladies - we'll get to you once we've solved the economy, war, famine, nuclear fusion and razor rash'.

Secondly, the lack of awareness about why the issue is rarely raised in focus groups. Labour has been at the forefront of the No Debate movement. Its flying monkeys launch at anyone who dares to speak up for women in the mildest way - as Rosie Duffield knows to her cost. What a fucking shock that women aren't going to volunteer for a public shaming for transphobia, at the hands of some green-haired focus group convener.

Unluckily for Labour, the ballot box is still private.

And the interesting thing is that women are the ones who bear the brunt of poverty and austerity the most, because of…hmm…let me see…their sex. Becuase they have to fit in work around child raising . Because they are discriminated against for being a mother. Because gender stereotyping and unconscious bias holds them back from opportunities for pay and caeeer progression.

And as for sorting war…papers full today of the evidence of the usual consequence of war…rape …MVAWG… because of ..ummm…let’s see…their sex

Funny that….🤦‍♀️

I wonder if someone phoned during Call Kier with the scenario of the woman who was raped in hospital but was told she couldn’t have been, would he trot out the TWAW line.

I doubt they’d let the call through, on the basis of the ongoing police investigation.

The article says: "one described it as “rude and gratuitous to talk about the genitalia of trans people”"

There is the assumption again - changing the debate to be about trans when it's about women. The question 'can women have a penis' has got nothing to do with trans people. We already KNOW that nearly all transwomen have a penis. What we are asking is do you think women have one?

@334bu

. *I think if people knew how uncomfortable Labour politicians are defending LGBTQ rights they’d be really upset.*

Yes but not as uncomfortable as they seem to be about defending women's rights.

What really pisses me off about that quote is that it conflates "trans rights" with "gay rights" when the two are in conflict. You can't be in favour of the rights to same sex attraction - the right to be homosexual - if you think biological sex is irrelevant.

Most of us challenging this gender nonsense are either in favour or gay rights or indeed are actually gay, lesbian or bisexual ourselves.

@Thistooshallpsss < wild applause >

Jeez. I've never read such a blind, smug article.

Tons and tons of words about what is asked of politicians and none about why.

Those at the top of the Labour Party believe that, despite the difficult media environment on trans issues, they are in the same place as the British public,

Read the btl comments. Literally one and a half minutes will completely disabuse you of that.

How can the writer use the words catastrophic, clusterfuck, dogs dinner, etc, to describe labour's inability to answer simple questions and still claim they're on the same page as the public?

They seem to think a clever bit of linguistic spin spun into their answers will make everyone calm down dear.

Watching people miss the point so spectacularly because they don't actually see the women standing right there in front of them is depressing.

At this point, politically homeless again, I’ll probably be spoiling my ballot with a “if you can’t respect my sex, don’t expect my X” written across it. Labour has been really doubling down on their stupidity/tone deafness on this issue for years. They know! They just don’t care about women as much as their woke points or something.

@LassoOfTruth

At this point, politically homeless again, I’ll probably be spoiling my ballot with a “if you can’t respect my sex, don’t expect my X” written across it. Labour has been really doubling down on their stupidity/tone deafness on this issue for years. They know! They just don’t care about women as much as their woke points or something.

I’ve already decided to do that in the locals and as I’m in a Tory safe seat, would do the same in a GE if Labour haven’t changed.