Equality, diversity work meeting today

[twinklystar23]

Meeting today at work. I feel reasonably well versed in the gender critical debate. However it would be a great help if people could send me factual, brief points on matters I guess will come up. Links are fine though would be a great help to have bite size facts to quote
Pronouns in email signatures (why are they an issue?)
% of male offenders committing violent offences v female offenders of the same.
Recording of gender identity vs sex (am ready to quote the EA 2010) impact I suppose is that we are providing the service to equivalent numbers of males females but also those whove had gender reassignment surgery.

Not sure how brave I'll be, but will update as and when.

Pronouns in email signatures are disproportionately a sex based issue for women, due to "stereotype threat" and general sexism.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2020/07/19/pronouns-compulsion-and-controversy/

Disbelief in gender identity ideology is also a protected belief under the Equality Act.

Around 98% of sexual offences are committed by males, 2% females. Males are also responsible for most other violent crime.

The prison population shows this clear difference in crime rates:

There were approximately 75 thousand males and almost 3.2 thousand females in prisons in England and Wales in 2021.

www.statista.com/statistics/283475/england-and-wales-prison-population-by-gender/

so was feeling brave said that preferred pronouns should be an issue said that it should be an individual choice. this was about briniging together a workforce group yet whilst everyone nodded. It was then said at the end to "remind" colleagues to use preferred pronouns, this was a step down from pp being compulsory - I give up" thank you for comments, though please feel free to post more, as they will be regular meetings.

Is your workplace suitable for wheelchair users? Is your company's website accessible for those with vision impairment? What support is there for flexible working for staff with caring responsibilities? Have you reviewed your recruitment procedures to ensure they are inclusive to minority applicants?

Start talking about the above to ensure such meetings aren't all about fucking pronouns.

Good point, I had missed that it was supposedly a general meeting.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Pronouns in email signatures are disproportionately a sex based issue for women, due to "stereotype threat" and general sexism.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2020/07/19/pronouns-compulsion-and-controversy/

Disbelief in gender identity ideology is also a protected belief under the Equality Act.

This. Womens voices do not carry the authority that mens do. Proven. Identifying yourself as a women with people who have not yet met you face to face and developed a relationship with you, puts you at a disadvantage

Example: I write all personal official letters in my initials and last name only. No title. I am in the course of resolving a long and legal issue regarding flooding to my property. Writing to councillors, flood authority, MP, land owners, private developers etc. including data, facts, diagrams maps and historic evidence etc. Every single one has responded to me as “Mr” assumed. I do not correct them. When I have met some of them face to face they look very confused - I had one person ask if I was there to represent my husband and did I know on the details? You can audibly hear the stutters on the phone when they ask for Mr surname and I say who is it they want to speak to, they say Mr, I say that ps odd as there isn’t a mr surname, and I ask them to check initials and then have them slowly realise their assumptions. I am very nice about it, have a bit of a laugh with them but bloody hell I hope it teaches them to stop making bloody assumptions and ask next time
Literally can’t make this stuff up….
I live alone and am constantly asked about my husband, referred to as Mrs despite being single. Again workman I have contacted as initial surname turn up asking for “Mr” .

Then we’ve all had the joyous experience of buying something like a car where the salespersons talks to the man even if it is our car, our money and the bloke is only their as a secondary driver out of vague interest.

There is no way on gods earth that someone is going to compound the fact as women we are pretty much forced to choose being called a single woman or a married woman or a raging feminist/spinster (Ms) by now insisting that, where I can avoid using this highly personal title (that Mr does not equate to) i still have I to tell someone who has never spoken to me that I am a women.

If pushed into using pronouns I would out of point of principle say “he, his” and watch them try to deal with that. I’d correct them ever time someone referred to me as she/her even though they’ve been calling me that for last 27 years. Just to make the bloody point.

@twinklystar23

so was feeling brave said that preferred pronouns should be an issue said that it should be an individual choice. this was about briniging together a workforce group yet whilst everyone nodded. It was then said at the end to "remind" colleagues to use preferred pronouns, this was a step down from pp being compulsory - I give up" thank you for comments, though please feel free to post more, as they will be regular meetings.

Disbelief in GI is a protected belief. Therefore to remind colleagues to use preferred pronouns is not ok. Obviously one doesn't very obviously NOT use them either. People are free to use whatever language they feel right, as long as it is not disrespectful. Sorry, haven't read the full thread, but this language pressure is receiving push back, it isn't a progressive way forward. Maybe something for the next meeting?

But I should say I was very senior, had a long history and most HR or senior managers would not have dared pulled me up on putting him/his/he. They might have muttered something but I’d have given them the look of “and……”
That or maybe put all the pronouns down togther- all 3 versions and a new title Mx so beloved by the gender worshipers.

so now an email being sent out by the senior member of staff who attended (despite one of the ground rules being to make the meeting non-hierarchical) "encouraging" colleagues who did not attend the meeting to use their pronouns on email strips and when meeting people professionally!

Feeling pissed off! what was the exact point of the meeting in raising these issues. I even used the point that some people who may be "unsure of their gender id may be uncomfortable in proclaiming pronouns they do not feel comfortable with"

These responses are really helpful, we did talk about other protected characteristics.

Well that's bloody infuriating. Can you reiterate in a follow up email that colleagues who are uncomfortable sharing pronouns are also absolutely included in the company's approach to comms?

@Beowulfa

Is your workplace suitable for wheelchair users? Is your company's website accessible for those with vision impairment? What support is there for flexible working for staff with caring responsibilities? Have you reviewed your recruitment procedures to ensure they are inclusive to minority applicants?

Start talking about the above to ensure such meetings aren't all about fucking pronouns.

Er yes. Agreed 100%.

I find the opening post really odd. Is that really what you put on a list of topics to discuss at a workplace diversity meeting?

% of male offenders committing violent offences v female offenders of the same

is this relevant to a work place diversity meeting?

is this relevant to a work place diversity meeting?

Might be, if they are considering restructure of changing facilities etc to be more inclusive. Safeguarding is important and statistical risk presented by one group to another vulnerable group might have to be considered as a factor.

If TRA propaganda is being used as a justification to impose pronouns and take away single sex spaces, those things are relevant.

Thanks for all the helpful responses and links. Kimikosnightmare, those points did not form part of any agenda, there was no agenda as the purpose was to bring together a working group. So I was just trying to think of things that might come up or the sort of information I might need answers to/ be able to draw on. In relation to "violent offenders" I wanted lo be able to draw on that statistic. Simply as I recall the eye roll from the trainer (Tw) some time ago at the E&D training with regards to use of womens public spaces "they think were going to rape them'

Beowolfa we did discuss other issues though pronouns seemed to dominate. Perhaps me speaking up changed it from mandatory as was floated to encouraged. Though I still felt intimidated by the follow up email to all colleagues. I also felt uncomfortable by the senior manager saying afterwards if anyone didnt want to continue being in the group (it was supposed to be voluntary) added to my discomfort when there were so many hand maidens nodding in agreement to everything. May Morris thanks for your link and your personal example it has given me support to argue about compelled speech but also how I will try to male a stand about this as difficult as it is being the only one. There is a NB person in the group, who i took to be a bloke as had facial hair, so whilst I dont want to offend anyone, by which I would be a pariah of sorts and would devalue any further points I would want to make.

Ask them what there policies are on helping employees going thru the menopause and how they intend to make the workplace more inclusive of womens rights as well as those who are religious

do you have to email or write to clients as part of your work? pointing out the impact of using pronouns in correspondence would have on the company profits in terms of both losing clients whom see you as captured by a ideology they dont agree with and the extra time taken up by being mansplained to, might work better then anything else.