Fascinating discussion female anatomy by a physiotherapist

[Pluvia]

Elaine Miller is a physio who specialises in continence and has an interest in the effect of testosterone on women's genitalia — among many other things. Apparently women on testosterone have genitalia normally seen in women in their 80s...

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-brilliant-elaine-miller?r=7vxx9&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4515728-Gussie-at-Alloa There is a thread here.

I love Elaine Miller, I think she is great. Really funny, articulate and intelligent.

The talk she gave at Alloa was very informative. Recommend everyone watches it.

Ah, hadn't realised there'd already been a thread. Her interview with Graham Lineman is much longer and more science-based than her very funny talk at Alloa.

@Pluvia

Ah, hadn't realised there'd already been a thread. Her interview with Graham Lineman is much longer and more science-based than her very funny talk at Alloa.

Thank you for this - she is really good! Can I ask you something?

Her point about puberty really made me think. Can people who have surpressed puberty go through it later if they stop the hormones?

If you take hormones aged 12 say, at 30 you stop - do you then go through it?

I think that's what we have been told but I think the picture is probably more complicated.

I suppose it depends on whether they go on to cross sex hormones. It cannot be a pleasant experience.

Going through puberty at 30 sounds horrendous.

@ickky

I suppose it depends on whether they go on to cross sex hormones. It cannot be a pleasant experience.

Going through puberty at 30 sounds horrendous.

On a fairly quick search it seems too hard to find information on this! If you remain pre teen for LIFE it would be What? I do not even know what to think about such a thing.

Are we creating a new wave of Eunachs? What happened to them?

I need to read more but I do not want to as it fills me with distress.

I feel so sorry for all these kids on PB's, they have no idea of the problems down the line as they are not told.

I think I can speak for the majority that when you are a teenager, you are a fucking idiot who thinks they know everything.
It is only as you get older that you realise that you don't know much about anything and there is so much more to learn and understand.

There have been so many huge legal cases with PPI, MPs' expenses, Catholic church and children's homes' sex abuse etc, but those will be as nothing compared to the fight that'll be put up by TM and TW in the future who have had treatment when they are young. Can you imagine it in court?

"You said you wanted it."

"I was a child!"

I'm sure we'll one day get the answer to the question about how many years you can suppress puberty, for it to reliably resume after puberty blocking treatment stops. Just as soon as the outlets currently prescribing them to troubled teenagers start keeping proper records and publishing their follow up data.

I'm believe there is a developmental window for puberty, and once it closes the cascade of hormones that are involved in natural puberty would not start even after puberty blockers were stopped. Trying to emulate that ever changing cascade of hormones (much more than sex hormones are involved in natural puberty) by synthetic means would be far beyond the capabilities of modern pharmaceutics.

According to the Dutch study, where they did keep records, the only children who ever decided to stop taking puberty blockers were the ones who had such adverse reactions that they were forced to stop taking the drugs. The other 99% inevitably went on to cross sex hormones. Probably because they never attained the brain maturity that normally occurs during puberty, the process that helps 90% of dysphoric children to outgrow their dysphoria.

People are wrongly being told that suppressing the natural sex hormones of children, and then replacing them with high doses of the hormones produced by the opposite sex, will bring on a form of puberty that transforms them into the opposite sex.

There was a story a few years ago about a couple who had arranged for their severely disabled daughter to be kept on puberty blockers to prevent her from growing so large that it becomes difficult for them to care for her. If that becomes widespread we might eventually get data to say how long puberty can be blocked before the window of developmental opportunity has passed.

The transgender medical industry is vehemently opposed to collecting that data, it seems to be very difficult to do any real research without being smeared and shunned for transphobia, so ambitious researchers find less contentious things to investigate.

It's very sad. I'm sure we will know, eventually. When there are so many permanently damaged detransitioners that it is no longer possible to suppress the truth.

Just like we now know that many of the little girls who were put on puberty blockers to delay menarche or to allow them to grow a bit taller are now suffering from crumbling bones and have the skeletons of old women when they are in their twenties. www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/

My guess is that because no one has been allowed to conduct research on these issues (because it's transphobic) no one really knows. It's all such a mystery. But the thought that at least 30% of those who have bottom surgery end up with permanent catheters (and all the infections and issues resulting from that) should be a huge concern for the NHS. Forget the cost of surgery — how much does 50-70 years of aftercare cost?

What I'd really like to know, is the long term impact of puberty blockers on brain development. Does the patient's brain ever truly mature past teenagehood?

Some discussion of ethics of being Forever young based on clinical scenarios that incorporate real world patients.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4516803-the-ethics-of-keeping-an-adult-in-a-child-s-body-bmj

I think I remember the couple who wanted to restrict the growth of their severely disabled child. I think they had to fight through the courts for the treatment.I didn't realise it was pb. Imagine, they had to fight. If only they had known they just had to say she was transgender.

[quote Stealhsquirrelnutkin]I'm sure we'll one day get the answer to the question about how many years you can suppress puberty, for it to reliably resume after puberty blocking treatment stops. Just as soon as the outlets currently prescribing them to troubled teenagers start keeping proper records and publishing their follow up data.

I'm believe there is a developmental window for puberty, and once it closes the cascade of hormones that are involved in natural puberty would not start even after puberty blockers were stopped. Trying to emulate that ever changing cascade of hormones (much more than sex hormones are involved in natural puberty) by synthetic means would be far beyond the capabilities of modern pharmaceutics.

According to the Dutch study, where they did keep records, the only children who ever decided to stop taking puberty blockers were the ones who had such adverse reactions that they were forced to stop taking the drugs. The other 99% inevitably went on to cross sex hormones. Probably because they never attained the brain maturity that normally occurs during puberty, the process that helps 90% of dysphoric children to outgrow their dysphoria.

People are wrongly being told that suppressing the natural sex hormones of children, and then replacing them with high doses of the hormones produced by the opposite sex, will bring on a form of puberty that transforms them into the opposite sex.

There was a story a few years ago about a couple who had arranged for their severely disabled daughter to be kept on puberty blockers to prevent her from growing so large that it becomes difficult for them to care for her. If that becomes widespread we might eventually get data to say how long puberty can be blocked before the window of developmental opportunity has passed.

The transgender medical industry is vehemently opposed to collecting that data, it seems to be very difficult to do any real research without being smeared and shunned for transphobia, so ambitious researchers find less contentious things to investigate.

It's very sad. I'm sure we will know, eventually. When there are so many permanently damaged detransitioners that it is no longer possible to suppress the truth.

Just like we now know that many of the little girls who were put on puberty blockers to delay menarche or to allow them to grow a bit taller are now suffering from crumbling bones and have the skeletons of old women when they are in their twenties. www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/[/quote]
That article is devastating.