Nancy Kelley feels like she’s living in a looking-glass world

[tabbycatstripy]

NK on Twitter saying ‘rape and sexual assault are real, not winning arguments.’ She doesn’t think people should ‘weaponise’ them as rhetorical devices. NK is experiencing a ‘trauma response’ because women are saying they feel threatened by being forced to share their spaces with males who are or claim to be transitioning.

With every sympathy for her with regards to any violence she has experienced, that is not what women who disagree with her are doing (making rhetorical arguments). Laws are supposed to cover hypothetical situations. Risk assessments are supposed to cover hypothetical situations. We are allowed to say the prospect of a certain change to the law - in our opinion - increases the risk posed to us of a certain harm. We are allowed to say we don’t agree with her underlying premise that we share any meaningful features with the people she chooses to offer all her sympathy to.

We will keep saying it until people listen.

@KittyLeMew

Wait so has she suffered any actual trauma or is she having a ‘trauma response’ to women’s actual real trauma - which we shouldn’t weaponise, but she’s allowed to use along with every other manipulative mendacious trick in the book (trans kids will die, most oppressed victims etc)...? She is a fucking piece of work.

I can date my REAL trauma experiences at the hands of men back to being an eight year old girl and I will weaponise the shit out of that to protect all women and girls from going through similar.

DomesticatedZombie has posted NK's thread upthread and it seems she is the survivor of several rapes/assaults:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4516679-Nancy-Kelley-feels-like-she-s-living-in-a-looking-glass-world?msgid=116221210

I find it the more unaccountable that she had no such empathy for Clare Dimyon's need for a female HCP.

NecessaryScene irregular verb declension (also upthread) feels very accurate as to NK's perspective.

@DomesticatedZombie

I've been exposed to a transwoman masturbating in a toilet, as a teenage girl. Is it 'weaponising' to talk about that, Nancy? Or should I just shut up like a good girl?

You know the answer, Zombie. You should shut up, like a good girl. So should we all. We don't want to add to Nancy's trauma, or upset the men.

@DomesticatedZombie

My heart breaks for trans people

But not for women, eh?

She doesn’t even allow people to reply to her tweets, so predictable. Unlike brave women like JK Rowling, a woman who has had to put up with the vilest of tweets.

Every rapist who hurt me was a cis, straight man. That's the norm of course. And yet social media is jammed full of people blaring hypersexualised alarms about trans women

Well Nancy, it's a good job we're not making laws for everyone in the country based on your own specific, personal experience then, isn't it?

Take a look at 'this never happens', Nancy.

Page after page of men identifying as women, attacking, raping and killing women.

Or, you know, just look at the prison statistics.

Half of the population of transwomen in prison are sex offenders.

It's unpleasant, manipulative gaslighting to pretend. Stop it.

@ChiefInspectorParker

How does she know that the men who assaulted her were ‘cis’ (ugh)

Because in the looking-glass world that she and her chums have conjured up, a man is a woman if he feels he is one.

So how does she know?

This is a flaw throughout all trans arguments. They assume cisness whilst also saying trans is a matter of identity so can't be seen. I've looked at their definitions, as much as they can bother to produce them and it seems I'm trans. So what though? Does that mean I can talk about my assault?

As far as I'm concerned, anyone using an accusation of weaponisig trauma of any type is q bit of a low life.its. it's trauma FFS. Who the fuck do you think you are to judge others reactions? There's a special place in helm for people whomseek to silence others in this way.

The argument that the most common demographic of male people are also the most common demographic of men who rape is so tiring to fight. Of course they are. There’s more of them. That doesn’t mean any other group of men are less likely to rape. It just means there are fewer of them, and therefore as a group, they commit fewer rapes.

Of course prison statistics suggest that men who claim they are women are incarcerated for sexual assault at higher rates than the general male prison population, but Nancy wants to pretend that because there are fewer of them, they present no risk and therefore we should give them increased access to women.

Really, sometimes the utter disingenuousness makes me want to beat my head against a wall.

@tabbycatstripy

Yes, this is “exclusive female same sex attraction is sexual racism” NK (not a direct quote).

I'm profoundly offended by my lesbianism being described as sexual racism. That's raw homophobia.

She must obviously come into contact with TRAs all the time. She represents them.

Does she never, for a moment, think it's even a little off that a whole cohort of males are so determined to ignore women's boundaries?

I think that it’s very much in the interests of the TRAs to have a lesbian heading Stonewall because then she’s the proof that Stonewall is still for lesbians too.

We all know it isn’t. They haven’t given a fuck about lesbians for years. But it’s useful for their optics.

‘I'm profoundly offended by my lesbianism being described as sexual racism. That's raw homophobia.’

It’s deeply offensive, but worse, it’s coercive. Kelley knows the accusation ‘racist’ is a powerful word that makes people afraid and feel guilty about ‘getting it wrong’, so she co-opts that. Being a lesbian (or she says she’s a lesbian - not sure how that matches up with her rhetoric) she must know how vulnerable and confused young people can be when coming to terms with their sexuality, and seems happy to gaslight them into doing things they don’t want to do. She’s a disgrace.

How is it that exclusive opposite sex attraction is not seen as sexual racism? TRAs do not seem to be bothered by heterosexual women excluding other females as potential sexual partners.

Hmm... it couldn't be something to do with excluding men could it?

Homosexual men exclude women and accept men = reasonable. Heterosexual women exclude women and accept men = reasonable. Homosexual women exclude men = ARGH! Sexual racism!

Blatant misogynistic homophobia. And homophobic misogyny.

Well, how does she know that the men who raped her were ‘cis’?

The man who raped me was a man, but now, 27 years later, says he’s a transwoman, so surely he was always a transwoman and never ‘cis’.

I do hope she’s checked with her rapists to see how they identify now, otherwise she would be mis-gendering these poor marginalised people and must be sent for re-education.

Seriously, I am sick to death of this shit.

Because some men - and their handmaidens - can’t bear the word ‘no’.

@JellySaurus

How is it that exclusive opposite sex attraction is not seen as sexual racism? TRAs do not seem to be bothered by heterosexual women excluding other females as potential sexual partners.

Hmm... it couldn't be something to do with excluding men could it?

Homosexual men exclude women and accept men = reasonable. Heterosexual women exclude women and accept men = reasonable. Homosexual women exclude men = ARGH! Sexual racism!

Blatant misogynistic homophobia. And homophobic misogyny.

This is one reason I wish India Willoughby had stayed in Big Brother longer. As well as shouting at Amanda Barrie for using the correct pronouns for India's sex, India had a go at one of the other housemates because he said that being exclusively heterosexual, he wouldn't be interested in India.

I think those attitudes should have received greater visibility.

Jane Clare Jones has written quite the thread on this:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1509059652507611136

@NecessaryScene

Another irregular verb?

I experience trauma responses
You are weaponising as a rhetorical device
They should reframe their trauma

Perfect.

Do twitter's rules not require Nancy's hate speech to be taken down? Are there no twitter rules which prevent you saying these things about people who've been assaulted?

[quote ResisterRex]Jane Clare Jones has written quite the thread on this:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1509059652507611136[/quote]
The Jane Clare Jones thread is blistering and brilliant.

Essential reading.

How is it that exclusive opposite sex attraction is not seen as sexual racism? TRAs do not seem to be bothered by heterosexual women excluding other females as potential sexual partners.

Some authors do problematise all desire, of course. Amia Srinivasan's The Right to Sex

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1526612534/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Previous MN threads available via putting this into a search engine: site:mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights Amia Srinivasan The Right to Sex

Perhaps NK would feel less upset if she actually listened to our arguments and realised that they are not about TW being a threat but about men being a threat, regardless of how they identify.

Really, NK is triggering herself as she is trapped within her ideology which refuses to recognise males as a sex and refuses to accept that there could be any harms in removing basic safeguarding or that predatory men would obligingly not take advantage of these removals.

Its ok, Nancy, no-one is saying that because someone says they are trans they are more of a risk. We are saying that people of the male sex are more of a risk. Because they are.

[quote ResisterRex]Jane Clare Jones has written quite the thread on this:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1509059652507611136[/quote]
Go Jane!

But really, how depressing that all this needs to be pointed out to the Chief exec of an EQUALITIES charity, or indeed to the Chief Exec of any organisation. Or actually to anyone who is not an actual rapist or wannabe rapist.