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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you cope with being a closeted gender critical feminist...

69 replies

bananatwain · 27/03/2022 15:17

...in a really fucking woke workplace? Everyone attending mermaids training, putting their pronouns at the end of their emails, mostly in support of the likes of Lia Thomas etc. I feel so silenced and if I speak out I will be vilified, won't be promoted etc. I work from home so doesn't bother me day to day but deep down I have a huge issue with it. I worked so hard to get my job and can't leave as I'm a lone parent and won't find anywhere else that it so supportive and flexible, so need advice on how to cope day to day. I feel like such a coward.

OP posts:
DERFDogmaExlusionary · 28/03/2022 06:12

[quote MangyInseam]I was just reading Kathleen Stock's substack, and found this which seems to really touch on this topic - she connected some dots I certainly hadn't.

kathleenstock.substack.com/p/the-missionaries-in-your-workplace?s=r[/quote]
Thanks. bookmarked to read later

Carbiesdreamhouse · 28/03/2022 06:34

I'm find it very stressful. I work somewhere where each meeting starts with an introduction round where pronouns are enforced. I find it so invasive. But if I don't do it then I'll be labelled and it'll be very bad for me. I've sofly questioned some things and got a very hard rebuttle and senior management (who seemed to personally agree with me) were brought in to tell me quietly but firmly to wind my neck in.

I just don't understand why gender identity needs announcing every day. Do I also announce my sexual orientation, marriage status, sexual activity, ethnicity, favourite book? It's infuriating.

springtimeishereagain · 28/03/2022 09:09

Solidarity! I belong to a professional organisation that's very woke. Aggressively so. You are not allowed to post GC views in its forums because it does 'literal harm' to trans people.

I emailed the chair to challenge his/the organisation's views and he refused to answer any of my questions. Again, infuriating.

It infuriates me because they strongly believe that people can change sex but we work in a fact-based industry where words matter very much.

I would be thought of as transphobic if I said any of what I feel about eg Pip Bunce, Lia Thomas etc.

Worse of all, the equality, diversity and inclusion team are all aggressively pro trans. I have pointed out that this makes them anti-women - at least at times, when our rights collide but they just can't - or won't - see it.

It has made me totally change my feelings about, and engagement with, this organisation. It's a shame.

Beamur · 28/03/2022 10:33

I'm out inasmuch my opinions have always been the same as they are now. I work in the public sector and think the approach my employer has taken so far is fair and reasonable.
They have published articles during appropriate 'themed' weeks on pronouns with a narrative from a colleague who is trans and favours pronouns. It was run alongside an article about hard to pronounce names. Suggesting if people wanted to add clarification to their email then go ahead.
You are allowed to add to the standard email sign off but there's no compulsion. This has been their approach for a few years.
To be honest I have yet to see anyone in the organisation with pronouns in their email but I have seen it on a few from external organisations (all from women too)
It's inclusive but not tyrannical. I suspect in some departments it's more common but I work in a fairly male dominated field.

Beowulfa · 28/03/2022 10:42

I've contacted our EDI Team (what do these people actually do all day?) to point out the misquoting of the Equality Act in compulsory training sessions- guess which protected characteristic they got wrong!

The email was simple and factual- the same message I'd send if training misquoted H&S workplace legislation, or the GDPR (both relevant to my job).

WelcomeMarch · 28/03/2022 10:46

the equality, diversity and inclusion team are all aggressively pro trans

So, they're actually the uniformity team, then?

Beamur · 28/03/2022 10:48

Oh, actually I did email the website administrator and point out an error in the listed characteristics too. It was changed. No drama.

Musomama1 · 28/03/2022 14:31

@tabbycatstripy

I sympathise. I was in one face-to-face conversation about this stuff with an acquaintance and the whole thing felt quite threatening. I didn't want to start an argument but the person speaking kept looking at me like the expected agreement. I won't see them again.
My brother said that I was conservative as a fact for my GC views and that gender ideology is progressive. I challenged him and he couldn't argue but I know he will reset to his view of me.

It's truly maddening. It's just lack of education of the issue and critical thinking. I used to feel the same only a few months ago.

Hopefully OP the tide will turn and your workplace can be more balanced.

Flammkuchen · 28/03/2022 16:07

I worked in the public sector until recently so know how you feel.

I kept quiet at work, was silent in the Stonewall training sessions and kept my email pronoun-free. However, on the anonymous annual staff survey, I gave feedback about feeling pressurised and silenced. At a senior management meeting afterwards to discuss the survey results, HR noted that a number of people had made similar comments and the whole 'Stonewall Misogny Index' push was dialled right back.

So, keep your head down but do take opportunities to let them know your feelings if you can in a safe way.

Phobiaphobic · 28/03/2022 18:04

[quote EarthSight]@Ionlydomassiveones My work place us about 70% pronoun people, and half if those are heterosexual men. They know damn well what a woman us when it suits them.[/quote]
Yes, it's the hypocrisy that's so sickening isn't it? Most men seem to know what a woman is when they want to get laid or start a family.

Yogipineapple123 · 28/03/2022 23:15

Fortunately I’ve now on two separate occasions seem gender critical views supported in my workplace. Most recently, unisex loos came up and everyone was against them.

I would never openly state my views, just as I wouldn’t talk about politics, but I have an answer prepared if I get asked to put pronouns in signature.

I’m sure I’d feel awfully conflicted in the moment, but I think there is something to be said for keeping your head down and staying quiet unless work policies are actively harming people. This topic has really reaffirmed to me that I am a feminist primarily because I don’t want women to be harmed. If it’s just woo woo nonsense in the corporate world, fortunately there is unlikely to be direct harm.

Southstand · 23/03/2023 15:02

I've found my people. Public sector in Scotland. Attended a work conference recently - all be kind, pronouns, change the world, bring your whole self to work (unless we disagree with you). I can't openly be GC so I'm keeping my head down and focussing things that avoid the group think. I also have a fetching suffragette/ #womenwontwheesht brooch that I wear from time to time - significance known only to me. It's my 'up you'!.

BlackForestCake · 23/03/2023 16:32

The most frustrating part is having to keep quiet while the wokies cheerfully spout their idiotic nonsense.

Vebrithien · 24/03/2023 09:31

I work in the Education sector.

I have started to come out of the closet.
I regularly wear the suffragette, have a women's right pin padge on my bag, and have been asking questions..."Why are we record the gender of students, when Ofsted are looking into the differences between the attainment of the sexes?"

Recently, one of the staff 'Ladies' toilets has had a laminated "Female Staff only" sign attached to the door. Wasn't by me, so there is at least one another person. A third person has a Women's rights coaster on her desk. A fourth person has made a display all about Women's suffrage, with the colours and one of our local suffragette sheros.

We're starting to fight back, however we can.

Vebrithien · 24/03/2023 09:32

G'ah, I regularly wear the suffragette COLOURS.

WoeBeCome · 24/03/2023 09:45

It’s crazy isn’t it that people are so scared of viewing an opinion based on science. It’s not like people are saying that they wish trans people would die. Or something awful like that.

I wonder how many of the TWAW men would actually date a transwoman. If they wouldn’t, then surely that’s gender critical. Or would a woman date a transman?

WoeBeCome · 24/03/2023 09:45

Btw I’m not judging people who aren’t saying their result views. It’s a comment on how crazy it is that people are genuinely worried about expressing their views.

RealityFan · 24/03/2023 10:24

My feelings go out to you all, those suffocated by the inability to speak clearly. Fwiw, I'm in a healthcare profession, reasonably woke, but light touch in application of social mores restrictions, and I work one to one with patients, so am not subjected to groupspeak and enforced codes on a daily basis.
I've spent over £1k on therapy to help me understand this "brave" new world, and how I fit within it. Part of my solution is realising I have nothing in common with this new elitist view of society, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. A big change is that I'll speak up to defend my positions, always respectfully to the person opposite me, never looking for an argument. But I won't censor myself. This means posting on Mumsnet, Twitter, and now yes, speaking up if asked at conferences, seminars, training days. I will not bow to preferred pronouns, but will be tactful and non confrontational. I don't need to win any arguments. For me, the fact there is any argument to start is where things were lost. Being on the backfoot for years. But my catharsis is in knowing my own mind, being accepting of differences, but in no way bending to facilitate those differences in compromising sex class based rights, and established science.
However I realise how hard it would be to maintain that line if I worked at my old medical training college, in the NHS, for a hyper woke corporation or charity, and get away with it.

1stWorldProblems · 24/03/2023 17:53

I have a dinosaur necklace, a suffragette badge & use my title (Mrs) after my name on my email (rather than me pronouns) and happily explain to others what they mean if asked I have also regularly asked the pronoun but no title people how they wish to be politely addressed since I rarely need a person's pronouns in formal emails / letters but object to calling people I've never met by their first names in writing. It's interesting how sport is the thing that is finally beginning to make the unthinking be kind bods think - I particularly find pointing if they have daughters how would they feel if they lost their place in a team thanks to TWAW

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