Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kathleen Stock on kindness

18 replies

DomesticatedZombie · 26/03/2022 14:23

Another interesting and thoughtful essay- here on political kindness and it's possible alternatives.

I'm not sure that I agree that kindness maps so strongly onto pity as Stock suggests, but I think it's undeniable that it's a potentially highly problematic value.

Kindness sounds undeniably a Good Thing. That undeniableness itself risks being a thought stopping cliche.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9

Real kindness can be complex and difficult - it isn't acquiescence or pandering or enabling.

kathleenstock.substack.com/p/the-pity-party-on-the-left?r=956zy&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

OP posts:
nepeta · 26/03/2022 16:19

An interesting piece, and thought provoking. I will come back to this thread when I have stewed my thoughts a little.

JellySaurus · 26/03/2022 19:31

Kindness does not mean the same thing to everybody. And kindness only works as a social strategy when it is reciprocal. Not in the sense of an exchange, but in the recognition that the people being kind need kindness, and that the people receiving kindness need to be also be kind.

NrlySp · 26/03/2022 19:35

Kindness has now become one of those meaningless terms like ‘love is love‘ It’s undefined, sounds great but is actually quite dangerous. I dislike it and refuse to use it.

DomesticatedZombie · 26/03/2022 20:09

I think the implied power differential is interesting. We can only offer kindness within either an equal relationship or from a position of power, can't we? Ukraine can't meet Russia with kindness. A woman in an abusive relationship will not get far with kindness.

OP posts:
Cuck00soup · 26/03/2022 21:57

I'm mostly a centre leftist and have long regarded some of my genuinely kind, helpful friends as a bit naive at times. (I guess I'm not that kind). I mean the people you feel you shouldn't criticise because it would be like kicking a puppy, but at the same time you feel a bit frustrated by their willingness to only see good in people.

Sometimes helping means giving, but other times it means challenging, understanding and problem solving. Saying "be kind" doesn't help addiction, feed the starving, prevent violence or end structural inequality.

The left is at its best when it uses its compassion to solve problems.

Slogans solve nothing.

PrelateChuckles · 26/03/2022 22:00

Ah, I refer to this all the time! About how really "be kind" means "feel kindly". A great piece.

DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 07:27

It's focussing directives on emotions, rather than action- not 'help people ' or 'take action to improve things' but a vague feely feel. It does seem to operate more on 'don't be unkind' than do anything positive.

Maybe it's just not a useful political concept.

OP posts:
JellySaurus · 27/03/2022 07:56

They are useful distinctions. Like the difference between 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' and 'Do unto others as you would be done by'. Feelings V deeds.

MoltenLasagne · 27/03/2022 08:06

A really thought provoking piece, thanks for sharing. I'm going to stew on it a while.

I have initial thoughts about the tendency of the left to eschew pragmatics for idealism that may be linked to (or pre-date) this drive for kindness but can't quite put my finger on it.

JellySaurus · 27/03/2022 08:10

@MoltenLasagne

A really thought provoking piece, thanks for sharing. I'm going to stew on it a while.

I have initial thoughts about the tendency of the left to eschew pragmatics for idealism that may be linked to (or pre-date) this drive for kindness but can't quite put my finger on it.

Doctrinaire thinking leads to coercion in order to enforce the doctrine.
DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 08:25

@MoltenLasagne

A really thought provoking piece, thanks for sharing. I'm going to stew on it a while.

I have initial thoughts about the tendency of the left to eschew pragmatics for idealism that may be linked to (or pre-date) this drive for kindness but can't quite put my finger on it.

I've been thinking this morning about 'progressivism' and the left. Started a thread on it, too, but don't know enough about history/politics/philosophy to link it all together.
OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 08:33

I thought the point about Romanticism (in terms of French Revolution, but I'm wondering if this also ties into Enlightenment more generally) was really interesting - does Romanticism and Classicism connect to broadly 'left' and 'right' ideals?

OP posts:
Torunette · 27/03/2022 08:37

I do not like performative politics. It gets nothing done, and wastes time. But then the cynic in me says it's useful for folk precisely because it means you don't have to actually do anything.

It's just another version of spin, but on a grander scale.

MangyInseam · 27/03/2022 11:53

Gosh, that Roger Scrunton article she mentions doesn't pull any punches:

spectator.org/40477_totalitarian-sentimentality/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/03/2022 12:56

Fairness is a better thing to aim for, including to oneself.

Noisyneighneigh · 27/03/2022 13:16

"Be kind" now is about controlling the narrative and nothing to do with committing a kind act. It basically means shut the fuck up unless you are going to simper with loads of love heart emojis, deny the patent truth and not ask difficult questions.
Ironically a lot of "be kind" types are more than happy to bully others who are "not being kind." I suppose it must be a special type of high: being nasty to others while believing you are maintaining the moral highground.

DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 13:47

[quote MangyInseam]Gosh, that Roger Scrunton article she mentions doesn't pull any punches:

spectator.org/40477_totalitarian-sentimentality/[/quote]
Thanks for linking! Another interesting viewpoint. I think a conservative view often considers itself highly rational and misses the fact that the values driving it are as emotive as those of liberals.

OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 27/03/2022 13:48

I did hunt for the Arendt essay mentioned, but couldn't find it ...

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread