Language question - man/woman or male/female - is one about sex and the other gender?

[GruffaIo]

This came up at work. If someone distinguishes between 'man' or 'woman', do you understand that to be a distinction based on sex or gender? Similarly, what if someone distinguishes between 'male' and 'female' - sex or gender? Only the two options (man/woman and male/female) are available so there are no other clues.

I thought one thing and was told another, so thought I would check with those more knowledgeable than me!

Man woman is sex and male female is gender?

I would say the distinction in both cases is sex. I've been told before that feminine and masculine refer to gender. I find gender as a concept troubling so would prefer to avoid it altogether. There's no getting away from one's sex, but I see no reason to buy into gender stereotypes.

Man/Woman is sex, for adult humans
Male/Female is sex, for any living sexed thing
Masculine/Feminine is gender

Interesting. It's Athena Swan. Originally, data was collected under the heading 'gender' and colleagues publicly entered 'male' or 'female'. They were free to pick other descriptors but no-one did and I left mine blank.

The heading remains 'gender' but the descriptors have now been changed to 'man' and 'woman'. I was asked to complete mine and said now it was showing sex, I would but that I had left it blank between the descriptors were gender-based. The reply I got was that man/woman is gender-based, having corrected it from using male/female (also intended to be gender-based) and I am wondering if that is right.

Both relate to sex.

Likewise bitch/dog, hen/cock, cow/bull, ewe/ram etc.

When I was a little more on the "be kind" side I'd have said man/woman related to gender, and male/female to sex.

But it seems grammatically odd to only refer to people's sex using male/female. Eg. "That female over there" seems somehow more offensive than "That woman over there".

Plus I'm now aware that there are plenty of people out there who use female/woman regardless of someone's sex.

I think for me personally, if it didn't cause so much anger, I'd stick to man/woman/male/female as all meaning sex, and feminine/masculine a gender (in the original feminist sense of the word)

*blank when the descriptors were...

That is some bullshit the folxxx are trying to hand out there. The gender words are feminine and masculine. Not man and woman.

They both relate to sex.

I don't accept that "woman" is something a male can be, it's just the term for an adult human female person. Like a doe is a female deer.

This is really helpful. I can see I was wrong too! I wanted my 'gender' box to remain blank anyway.

If it’s Athena swan surely it should be sex based anyway ?

A woman is an adult human female
A man is an adult human male
A girl is a juvenile human female
A boy is a juvenile human male
A female is of the class that can bear offspring and/or produce eggs
A male is of a class that can fertilise eggs

Both terms refer to sex but man/woman and boy/girl only refers to humans, just like stallion/mare and colt/filly refers to horses.

My Athena Swan group is only collecting data on gender (but there's been a lot of discussion around sex-based issues). I have gently pushed back but don't want to push too hard or too publicly as I do not (currently) have the job protection to do so.

Male/female = sex

Man/woman and boy/girl = sex + age

Masculine/feminine/neuter = gender

But Athena Swan is run by Advance HE who are completely confused re sex and gender anyway. Just look at their programme for women - Aurora. They identify all the reasons that this programme is needed, the barriers women face, the underrepresentation of women in senior roles, the preference women have for single sex environments.....and then state they are open to anyone who identifies as a woman....

@ferretface

A woman is an adult human female A man is an adult human male A girl is a juvenile human female A boy is a juvenile human male A female is of the class that can bear offspring and/or produce eggs A male is of a class that can fertilise eggs

Both terms refer to sex but man/woman and boy/girl only refers to humans, just like stallion/mare and colt/filly refers to horses.

As above.

Both sex. But some people still use gender to refer to sex so it's ambiguous.

Just because Gender ideologues have tried to claim the word woman to me those who identify as women, that doesn't mean it is so. The problem stems from gender being used as a euphemism for sex effectively they originally both meant the same thing, but now gender ideology says gender is different. Resist!

They all refer to someone's sex.

A man is an adult human male, a woman is an adult human female.

As opposed to a boy being a male child and a girl being a female child (young human).

In the same way a heifer or a bullock become a cow or a bull once they've matured.

Gender is based on feminine or masculine social constructions.

@AchillesPoirot

Man woman is sex and male female is gender?

Bloody hell no. Male and female are definitely sex based. That’s the definition - it is scientific and extends beyond humans. Even plants have female and male anatomical parts

I think you are confusing with feminine and masculine which are gender stereotypes. Not the same thing at all.

"Who can apply?
Aurora is for all individuals that identify as a woman up to senior lecturer level or professional services equivalent in a university or higher education college"

"The research suggests that most women prefer to discuss challenges and barriers that they face in a women only environment rather than a mixed group."

^ oops I cross posted with 12:37ferretface I would have just said "as above" if I'd seen 👍

Man/Woman is sex, for adult humans
Male/Female is sex, for any living sexed thing
Masculine/Feminine is gender

^This. Man/woman is the normal noun you would use to refer to a person. Male/female can be an adjective,often used in order to distinguish one sex from the other, or a noun (but usually used in a more scientific or official context rather than normal conversational language - e.g. in police reports, medical documentation etc).

Masculine and feminine are used to describe grammatical gender, and have also always been used to mean 'manly' or 'womanly', which makes them perfect for denoting gender (rather than sex), since gender is basically just 'manly' and 'womanly' stereotypes and roles.

If one is sex and the other is gender, please can you ask them which pairs 'match' or 'correspond' or 'align' with each other?

We've been given the definition of 'transgender' as 'when sex and gender don't align'.

Now someone somewhere has presumably said that 'male sex' and 'man gender' match. But why? What's male about a man, in this new gender-based world? Who says they match? Isn't it transphobic to say they match?

(This is assuming the person rejects the dictionary definitions of man = human male, etc, as genderists do).