Schools 11-18 yrs LGBTQ+ youth groups

[CloudyButFine]

DS Yr 8's school has a LGBTQ+ group - a 'safe space' for anyone who 'identifies' as one of the acronym. I think run by an outside agency, probably done virtually.

To be having 11-18 year olds together discussing sexuality etc is to me by definition not a safe space but a safeguarding risk. Although my DS's school only goes to 16 yrs.

Does anyone know how these groups work in schools?

Are there any teachers that can give me advice on how to question the school? I think children should be supported, but have concerns about young children discussing their sexuality with adults in this manner.

Might get some advice here
www.transgendertrend.com/schools-resources/

Sorry, Section 28 finished in 2003.

Also, sexuality =/= sexual. The club will be a way for LBGTQ+ kids to get support from people like them who understand, if they feel worried about not being accepted for who they are, or if they are being bullied, not a place to discuss sexual fantasies!

The age of consent is 16 in the UK. I’m not at all sure I’d be comfortable having 18 and 13 year olds of mixed sexes discussing sex as it would be one of the topics that came up
11-16 with adult supervision

Oh please of course teenagers will discuss sex fgs - it’s perfectly normal that they will which is why the over 16s belong elsewhere

You could try contacting the Safe Schools Alliance to get some advice on how to raise concerns. I'd also be interested in who the "outside agency" was and reading their safeguarding policies. safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

That's definitely something that needs either close supervision by more than one teacher, ideally one of each sex, as neutral impartial safeguards (for the teachers' protection in terms of not being accused of anything without a witness as well as the children's safety) or seperate age categories. If it's being provided by an outside agency the neutral safeguarding teachers absolutely should be present anyway regardless whether the group is mixed age.

16+ can legally consent and 18 year olds are legally fully adults so obviously including 11 year olds in the same group needs very sensitive and comprehensive teacher supervision.

The LGBT+ group at my kid's school is is for Y10s and over. As a safeguarding thing.

They are still drip feed gender stuff I don't agree with - though to be fair from other kids not the staff.

There is a staff member who drifts in and out to keep an eye on things but she is young and never challenges the gender ideology.

Many of the lesbians are non-binary and one is he/him - all I think encouraged by the group. Though they'd talk of course group or no group. I do think however it has given the most militant genderists a platform they would not have had.

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Oh please of course teenagers will discuss sex fgs - it’s perfectly normal that they will which is why the over 16s belong elsewhere

Re-read OP's post. It's stated that there ARE no students over 16 in the school.

"Although my DS's school only goes to 16 yrs."

See? There are no "18 and 13 year olds of mixed sexes discussing sex" in this case at all. It's literally not possible in this case.

These clubs are not for discussing sex. They are for talking about day to day problems and worries and how being LGBTQ+ affects them. I know. Being bi myself, I was in these clubs at school. They are not inappropriate.

@anadulthumanfemale
So 11 years hanging out with 15 and 16 year olds is okay ? Let's take out the LGBT aspect, is it okay for 11 year olds to hang out with 15/16 year olds ?
What safeguarding experience and qualifications do you have ??

[quote CheekyMaw]@anadulthumanfemale
So 11 years hanging out with 15 and 16 year olds is okay ? Let's take out the LGBT aspect, is it okay for 11 year olds to hang out with 15/16 year olds ?
What safeguarding experience and qualifications do you have ??[/quote]
Hmmmm...I dunno...is there a case where 11 year olds might hang out with 15/16 year olds? Perhaps like, every single other club at the school?

Are the other clubs discussing sexuality, and are they supervised?

I dunno about the school clubs you know but at schools round here, the after school activities are Year based and well supervised by teaching staff . Like Year 10 girl's football, Year 9 debating club , Year 11 Study clubs. Also you didn't mention your experience and qualifications on safeguarding ?? I will go first; 20 years safeguarding children and families team . 10 years prior to that working with children and young people on care .
Why should LGBT clubs run by outside agencies be exempt from safeguarding ?

.

*in care

@Thelnebriati

Are the other clubs discussing sexuality, and are they supervised?

Again, sexuality =/= sexual. 'Discussing sexuality' can be as simple as a boy saying 'I fancy boys'. It is not inherently inappropriate.

Also, government guidance states that all school clubs have safeguarding and supervision in place. Ofsted has regulations about it too. These things are checked pretty seriously.

What are the Ofstead rules about outside agencies brought in by schools to run clubs over Zoom? Will the school moniotor all activity?

I do realise the difference between sexual orientation and sexual, but imo you are being naive if you think sex acts are never discussed in groups of teenagers talking about sexuality.
I don't believe older children are the ones that should be informing 11 year olds. I think its OK for parents to ask questions about whats happening in schools.

I don't know how old you are anadulthumanfemale - presumably just out of school? It's only recently that schools have been gaslit into believing that mixed age groups to discuss sexual identity is a thing.
No school should ever be facilitating 11 and 12 year olds discussing sexual matters / identity with older children. The risk it poses for all of them is far too great.

No school should ever be facilitating 11 and 12 year olds discussing sexual matters

They won't be discussing 'sexual matters'.

They'll be talking about bullying, friendship groups, school uniform, homework, anything studied within school that has an LGBTQ+ angle (Mercutio in Baz Luhrmann's R+J, Josh Cavallo, Jane Austen) etc.

It doesn't really seem any different to the vertical form groups I had once a week when I was at school.

Thanks for the advice

Sorry, Section 28 finished in 2003.

Not a helpful comment, but entirely predictable. That is not what I was implying.

Hmmmm...I dunno...is there a case where 11 year olds might hang out with 15/16 year olds? Perhaps like, every single other club at the school?

Discussing different sexualities in the classroom is entirely appropriate. Young children discussing sexualities needs to be age appropriate. Mixing together with older children is therefore questionable. Can you not see the difference with that and say, dance club??

See? There are no "18 and 13 year olds of mixed sexes discussing sex" in this case at all. It's literally not possible in this case.

The outside agency specifically says up to 18, so how do I know if the school facilitates sessions with older children/adults up to 18 not at the school? That is part of what I was asking about.

What about an 11 yr old girl who thinks she may be a lesbian being faced with a 17 yr old boy who identifies as a girl and says they are a lesbian.

What about an 12 yr old boy who thinks he may be bisexual discussing it with a much older child

There are lots of questions. It may be fine, it may be not.

They are for talking about day to day problems and worries and how being LGBTQ+ affects them. I know. Being bi myself, I was in these clubs at school. They are not inappropriate
See, I think it's great LGBTQ have support clubs now.
It was literally illegal to even talk about or know about anything like that when I was at school, as all my school years were in the thick of section 28.
It's great to hear your experience of them, as reading MN it's clear that a lot of people would love a return to section 28 days.
You see a lot of inappropriate for schools and social contagion if kids get to find out that there are other people who are like them too etc

I think the question is which is more appropriate for safeguarding? An all-age club, or a KS3 club and a KS4 club? And what safeguarding procedures are in place?

Worst case scenario: an older child starts grooming a younger one. What is in place to stop that? Beyond 'it'll never happen'.

There was a thread a while ago on a similar topic - lots of useful information and questions to ask in that one. I think the OP posted a letter that whe was going to send to the school.