There's more trans people nowadays because it is more accepted

[itssunnyyay]

Thoughts?

I was with a friend of mine at the weekend who is a primary teacher and she mentioned that there are 2 kids in year 5 at her school who are trans, one is a trans girl and one is a trans boy.

She then said 'do you think that trans is more common now because parents and society in general are more accepting of it?' .. so clearly she is wondering a little bit about it and this is the conclusion she has come to.

Tbh, I kind of tried to change the subject because I knew she would view my thoughts as bigoted, but If her idea was true, then why has no one that we went to school with now come out as trans? If the only reason there now seems to be more trans people than before, was that it is now more accepted, then surely we would be seeing people of all ages suddenly coming out as trans?

'Trans children' will have been heavily influenced by their parents or elsewhere.
Social contagion plays a large role.

Not allowed to point out the glaring differences between the motivations of teenage girls and adult males who claim to be the opposite sex.

Yes, where is the deluge of middle aged women coming out as transmen, purchasing breast binders and underwear fillers, at long last ready to live the rest of their lives as their true authentic self? …. Tumbleweed.

No. At the most basic level I would say that the numbers and patterns involved don't really support that. It's too many kids, and we aren't seeing older people in anything like similar numbers who are say they should have transitioned as kids they are really men/women, or seem to show ongoing issues because that wasn't an option. We also don't see similar patterns in other cultures historically, it seems to be a new phenomena in terms of who is affected and how.

And people who are looking at the numbers as researchers also don't generally seem to think that seems to be a good explanation either.

There will always have been people who reject gender stereotypes, but now they're encouraged to believe from an early age that they're trans.

There is no such thing as a trans child that young, just a projecting parent

@ZaraSizeMedium

Yes, where is the deluge of middle aged women coming out as transmen, purchasing breast binders and underwear fillers, at long last ready to live the rest of their lives as their true authentic self? …. Tumbleweed.

This.

If she's a primary school teacher, can you talk about how gendered childhood has become? So yes, it's more acceptable to be trans, but is it possible that some children also feel less comfortable being gender non-comforming, or that they can't really be a girl because they want short hair / like sports / don't like girly clothes etc?

Suggest that she listens to the gender: a wider lens podcast. It's very interesting and they are asking questions like these.

@InvisibleDragon

If she's a primary school teacher, can you talk about how gendered childhood has become? So yes, it's more acceptable to be trans, but is it possible that some children also feel less comfortable being gender non-comforming, or that they can't really be a girl because they want short hair / like sports / don't like girly clothes etc?

I kind of wanted to touch on this with her but decided not to bother, she said that the trans boy was a surprise, but the trans girl wasn't because you could always tell they weren't conforming (she didn't use those words but that was the jist of it) she said that the trans girls mum wasn't on board at first but now is okay with it, and that since she has come out, she seems so much happier and more confident.. obviously happiness and confidence in a child is a great thing, but I do wonder if this isn't just a boy who likes 'girl' things and because that's being accepted, they are happier, not that they are actually a girl. I also wanted to see what she thought would happen once they hit puberty.. but I wasn't really in the mood for a debate

@NotTerfNorCis

There will always have been people who reject gender stereotypes, but now they're encouraged to believe from an early age that they're trans.

Interestingly this particular friend was a tomboy when we were younger, she also had a friend who was a massive tomboy and used to wear boys clothes, had short hair, basically looked like a boy, in her 20s now and she is extremely feminine .. had she been young now, people would have labelled her trans

I think it's more that today's children are caught in a pincer movement that our generation didn't have to deal with: the severe binary division of pink and blue marketing in toys and clothes, social media and especially the easy-access and increasingly violent porn that's giving them a totally warped idea of what's expected of them sexually, in relationships, and the lack of decent real world youth cultures with their music scenes, gigs, clubs and style tribes to safely experiment in. Instead they've got an online rabbit-hole world where they can be easily accessed and manipulated by anonymous strangers with agendas from any part of the globe. And of course, unlike previous manifestations of youth unhappiness and discomfort in their changing bodies, transitioning is incredibly lucrative for big pharma, plastic surgeons and crowdfunding sites, for whom it creates patients for life, including when they change their mind and need reconstruction work. Follow the money.

I think there have always been children who don't conform to gender stereotypes, either permanently or as a phase - plenty of little boys dressing up in fairy dresses and playing in the home corner at most nurseries and plenty of girls making a bee line for the spiderman outfit. It's just that in the past it wouldn't have occurred to anyone to suggest that a boy in a dress was really a girl or that a girl who enjoyed construction toys was actually a boy. Now it seems to be a very common reaction and I suspect that once adults start suggesting it to a young child they will go along with it.
My teenage son has several trans/non binary people in his social circle. In my youth, I think the non binary person would have been viewed as a slightly effiminate boy, though given it was the 80s and half the boys in my school had long hair and/or wore make up maybe nobody would even have noticed. The transboy who has short hair, doesn't wear make likes science and wants to be an engineer, would just have been viewed as a clever girl. These days if anyone does anything vaguely out step with gender norms the default position seems to be that they must be the other sex. I doubt the number of non conformers has really changed - in fact looking at my children's friends I would say if anything it is less - but the beliefs about what that means have changed.

@MrsAvocet

I think there have always been children who don't conform to gender stereotypes, either permanently or as a phase - plenty of little boys dressing up in fairy dresses and playing in the home corner at most nurseries and plenty of girls making a bee line for the spiderman outfit. It's just that in the past it wouldn't have occurred to anyone to suggest that a boy in a dress was really a girl or that a girl who enjoyed construction toys was actually a boy. Now it seems to be a very common reaction and I suspect that once adults start suggesting it to a young child they will go along with it. My teenage son has several trans/non binary people in his social circle. In my youth, I think the non binary person would have been viewed as a slightly effiminate boy, though given it was the 80s and half the boys in my school had long hair and/or wore make up maybe nobody would even have noticed. The transboy who has short hair, doesn't wear make likes science and wants to be an engineer, would just have been viewed as a clever girl. These days if anyone does anything vaguely out step with gender norms the default position seems to be that they must be the other sex. I doubt the number of non conformers has really changed - in fact looking at my children's friends I would say if anything it is less - but the beliefs about what that means have changed.

There are certain people I look back at from my school days and I can guarantee that if we were at school now, they would have been trans or non binary.. funnily enough though, as adults, none of those people are trans or non binary

For many young people, it's a show of non-conformity which they can and often do, grow out of.

We see entire friendship groups identifying as something or nothing these days.

For a tiny minority, it really is a serious choice - for most it's simply the modern equivalent of being a goth, an emo, or smoking behind the bike sheds.

Trans people have always existed - statistically how common it is I’m unsure as until recently it hasn’t been widely accepted.

I’m very supportive of genuine trans people but I do have big concerns that children and young people struggling with puberty and identity are equating their uncomfortableness and confusion with being trans. I feel like the body acceptance and positivity movement is also driving this forward as it’s making young people feel like they HAVE to love their bodies and feel comfortable and if they don’t then they must be trans/non binary/whatever.

We seem to have lost the sense that it’s normal to be uncomfortable with changing bodies and hormones and not being sure about who you are when you’re young.

I have no evidence for this, this is just my take on it

I think it is reasonable for there to be a rise in trans people around as it's more accepted, and a good thing too.

However for there to be a 4000% rise in gender referals for one demographic (young and adolescent girls), I think questions have to be asked. I believer that a tiny % of that group will be trans require medical intervention to live their lives comfortably... and despite the panic I think most of the rest will desist before anything damaging is done, but it's clearly not all because it's 'more acceptable'.

It's also because (some) kids, girls especially, are now seeing everything through the lens of gender and are interpreting normal adolescent feelings as indicative of something about their gender. Also because kids love categorising and obsessing about things and endlessly discussing what your exact gender and flavour of sexuality is the new bands/clothing coversation (certainly is for my 13 yo NB AFAB child).

@IvyTwines

I think it's more that today's children are caught in a pincer movement that our generation didn't have to deal with: the severe binary division of pink and blue marketing in toys and clothes, social media and especially the easy-access and increasingly violent porn that's giving them a totally warped idea of what's expected of them sexually, in relationships, and the lack of decent real world youth cultures with their music scenes, gigs, clubs and style tribes to safely experiment in. Instead they've got an online rabbit-hole world where they can be easily accessed and manipulated by anonymous strangers with agendas from any part of the globe. And of course, unlike previous manifestations of youth unhappiness and discomfort in their changing bodies, transitioning is incredibly lucrative for big pharma, plastic surgeons and crowdfunding sites, for whom it creates patients for life, including when they change their mind and need reconstruction work. Follow the money.

Sex stereotypes, social contagion, pornography, lack of real-world tribes, online manipulation and big pharma. That's the sad story in a nutshell.

I think you are right TheRealityCheque - for many it is a trend. My DS says that he us in a minority in his friendship group as he is openly a straight male. Interestingly his group is what are generally the highest academic achievers in the year group - the nerdy kids. I don't know if that is significant.
The problem is that the only residual effects most of us have of our teenage "phases" are a few embarrassing photos and memories. Some of these kids are going to be physically and psychologically altered forever. It bothers me greatly to see several of DS's friends who only a couple of years ago were bright, happy kids getting sucked into this.

Trans people have always existed - statistically how common it is I’m unsure as until recently it hasn’t been widely accepted.

But have they, really? All the stories I've read are about women who wanted more freedom than society allowed, and men who enjoyed dressing as women.

I sometimes wonder if some teens use being trans as a way of deflecting potential sexual advances in a time that is confusing for them.
I also wonder how many children wouldn’t be trans if they didn’t know about it.

There are more trans children because they are being prematurely labelled as such. There have always been girls who are tomboys and boys who are interested in girly stuff but for the most part they were just left alone to follow their interests and not worry too much about what their interests said about their gender. My own DD wore only boys' clothes and had her hair cut short from when she could speak until about age 12, she was mostly friends with the boys in primary school and played on a boys football team until about aged 10. Nobody ever suggested that she was trans in anyway, and I would have pushed back very hard if they had as gender is pretty much irrelevant at that age. She has naturally got quite a bit more 'girly' as she's got older.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Trans people have always existed - statistically how common it is I’m unsure as until recently it hasn’t been widely accepted.

But have they, really? All the stories I've read are about women who wanted more freedom than society allowed, and men who enjoyed dressing as women.

When I think deeply about it, the argument that gender is a social construct (which I do believe it partly is) totally contradicts the argument for transgender and people being born in the wrong bodies

Here's a clinical psychologist's views of the psychological dangers of socially transitioning young children. It destabilises the child's sense of self and how they relate to the external world and their sense of self - all crucial development through childhood and adolescence
When we disconnect them from their biological sex, we set up patterns of denial and secrets. We set them up to hate their bodies at puberty, to beg for blockers and binders, because for years we told them they could change sex, and they believed us

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/