Are parents allowed to veto puberty blockers in the UK?

[veevee04]

I'm not up to date with the all the trans legislation in the UK. My DD has been talking about trans and she's 8!! I'm not worried she has gender identity issues but I'm worried trans is becoming a bit more of a trend I am very against puberty blockers or gender reaffirming surgery until the age of 18. I believe children should have extensive counselling and assessments before going down the body modification route and it should be last resort. I think this will be a scandal in years to come. Can anybody confirm whether parents are able to veto puberty blockers ?

At 8, absolutely you have a veto. I am hopeful that this madness will be over by the time she's a teen.

It's quite scary the number of private prescriptions I've seen from Romania for puberty blockers as few in this country want to prescribe it (rightfully so!). Unfortunately the parents seem to be behind it.

@veevee04
I can't imagine what its like to hear one's DD mention anything about trans.Have you read Helena's detransitioning story?Her insights of why she was drawn in are illuminating.One thing that struck me is her being made to feel guilty for being a "privileged white cishet girl" by people on tumblr.I wonder if it would be helpful to read Helena's story with your DD to open up the conversation as perhaps she too has idiosyncratic reasons for thinking about trans stuff. Helena's story also has pics of her at 8 so perhaps that would spark a conversation that would enable you to understand all the factors at play.

lacroicsz.substack.com/p/by-any-other-name?r=18ll6h&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&s=r

Are parents allowed to veto puberty blockers in the UK?

In effect, yes. This isn't something in legislation, it's about medical practice. A recent high court ruling found that children don't have the competence to make such a complex, long term decision so only parental consent can allow PBs below 16.

On a general note every adult trans story I've heard has parents with regressive views of what the sexes should be like. You can't stop your kid being exposed to the social contagion but you can inoculate them.

Emphasise that boys and girls can be and do what they like. Be honest and factual about the differences between sexes and the fact that silly expectations are put onto women. Make sure they understand the biology well.

Most kids who do develop GD come out of it fine.

At that age how would she know about trans?

I would move her to a different school and see what kind of youtube videos and shows she is watching.

A recent high court ruling found that children don't have the competence to make such a complex, long term decision so only parental consent can allow PBs below 16.

I think GIDS said that consent from both the child and at least one parent was required. I'm not sure if they are making new referrals for under 16s following the Keira Bell ruling.

On a general note every adult trans story I've heard has parents with regressive views of what the sexes should be like.

This is no longer the case for the large number of teenage girls caught up in this via social contagion.

@InexperiencedDogOwner

It's quite scary the number of private prescriptions I've seen from Romania for puberty blockers as few in this country want to prescribe it (rightfully so!). Unfortunately the parents seem to be behind it.

Are you in the UK? Are these prescriptions coming from GenderGP (Helen Webberley's company)? Can pharmacists refuse to fill these prescriptions, or at least query them, if they think they might be harmful to the child?

@Jobseeker19

At that age how would she know about trans?

I would move her to a different school and see what kind of youtube videos and shows she is watching.

Good luck with that. It appears to be in practically every school in the land including private, girl only ones. The odds on finding one with GC independent policies near where OP lives must be tiny. You are spot about tracking her net use though.

Ultimately at age 8 you have a lot of control and if you don't take DD to the doctor etc then she will have no way to get blockers. However, as soon as she isvold enough to go places by herself - early secondary school - she would in theory be able to take herself to the doctor without your knowledge.

In your position, I would be wanting to know where she has heard about trans issues and how she has got the idea that she is trans. My bet would be at school, either through a formal talk that the school has done without telling parents, or through an individual wokey-woke teacher. Speak to school and find out which.

It's quite scary the number of private prescriptions I've seen from Romania for puberty blockers

I've just checked, and GenderGP's 'prescribing lead' is Dr Roxana Mateescu, a Romanian doctor.

www.gendergp.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/GGP_Multi-DisciplinaryTeam_A4_2021_05_26_Digital.pdf

GenderGP offer an online service where they never meet the patients and is now largely based outside the UK. Helen Webberley is still listed on the site as the founder. Her tribunal continues next month, where one of the allegations is:

The tribunal will inquire into the allegation that, when acting as the principal provider of the Gender GP website, Dr Webberley attempted to avoid the regulatory framework of the United Kingdom,

www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-helen-webberley-jul-21

This is an expensive online service so it's unlikely a child would be able to access this without the help of their parents, but parents should be aware that it is not regulated in the UK and the founder has a criminal conviction for running an unregistered clinic here.

I had a chat with my 9 and 7 year old where the older one told me her teacher told her you can change sex.

I mean they kind of get it as they were able to say that the only differences between sexes were “private parts” and having babies and are aware that you can’t change the baby carrying bit.

But come on …. Teacher said x so they just believed it.

Under 16 they need parental consent so that shouldn't be an issue. What you do need to ensure is that she is aware that not all biological females are girly, feminine, that there's a place in society for everyone and you completely respect her if she doesn't want to wear pink frilly dresses. One of my DD's friends decided to be called he at 14 but my 19 had changed her mind, but did realise what she was was gay, something her mother couldn't accept so she no longer has contact

Mary, did you take that up with the school? Your daughter may not have correctly understood what the teacher was saying, and no wonder. No primary aged child can understand this. Most adults appear to be struggling with it.

Agree, make sure you know what your child is watching on the web. Start this while they're young, before they get to the teens. I'm quite evangelical about this, apologies to the guy who came to service the boiler (gas boiler for the avoidance of doubt).

This is no longer the case for the large number of teenage girls caught up in this via social contagion.

I agree; which is why I said adult, then went on to discuss the social contagion aspect and potential defences.

Gasp0
I read the pse stuff and it’s not there - it referenced being any kind of girl or boy you want to be. So I don’t know exactly what was said and perhaps they picked up something wrong but how do you get across the nuance to tiny kids.

I’m not sure could face getting into it.

It appears to be in practically every school in the land

It's really not. I work in education in the north and I don't know of any captured schools amongst dozens. Most staff who are aware of it are worried.

Here it is one step removed, in camhs and SS as well as the training that key safeguarding staff get- meaning it isn't pervasive but the misinformation isn't questioned either.

The kids I know who've been badly affected have either had Genderist parents or very patriarchal parents and SS intervention.

I would keep your daughter off the internet and all social media. My kids didn't get phones or technology until 13+ you can also get products like Wise phone techless.com/store/wisephone
that's let you take photos, talk, text etc but doesn't have the capacity to get online. That's the #1 safest way to protect your child.
My girls are now 21 & 18 and are mentally healthy, mature and balanced and I think keeping them away from smart phones for as long as possible was a big help. Still have a son of 15 so won't count my chickens yet though 😄

@IcakethereforeIam

Agree, make sure you know what your child is watching on the web. Start this while they're young, before they get to the teens. I'm quite evangelical about this, apologies to the guy who came to service the boiler (gas boiler for the avoidance of doubt).

@donquixotedelamancha

This is no longer the case for the large number of teenage girls caught up in this via social contagion.

I agree; which is why I said adult, then went on to discuss the social contagion aspect and potential defences.

I did notice that you said 'adult', but I was just reinforcing your point about teenage girls to emphasise the difference in the current cohort of teenage girls (for other people reading the thread who may not fully realise how different things are now).

But I also think it's important to mention that parents may not be able to fully protect their children from this. There are parents posting here who have been able to do very little to protect their daughters when they have been caught up in this.

Where did she hear about that? What has she heard? Who told her? What does she think it means?

She's 8. If this came from school, any teacher, any PSHE style session, then you need to know what it was that was said, shown to the kids and then come back here and grab all of the relevant information about what the DfE have said schools can and cannot say to kids.

@SamphiretheStickerist

Where did she hear about that? What has she heard? Who told her? What does she think it means?

She's 8. If this came from school, any teacher, any PSHE style session, then you need to know what it was that was said, shown to the kids and then come back here and grab all of the relevant information about what the DfE have said schools can and cannot say to kids.

I've tried to talk to her about it but she doesn't seem to be too interested in sharing she says one of her friends have spoken about it I'm perhaps thinking she watched YouTube on friends device maybe . She said she was a lesbian a few weeks ago which seemed to be a trend as all her friends were suddenly lesbians, which I didn't really take too seriously I just said we don't need to put labels on things especially so young , whoever you like is fine. She has a crush on a boy this week. Just to be clear I'm fine with her being a lesbian I'm just not sure whether she actually knows.

I worry more about this transgender trend as could have future ramifications for fertility. I want her to be comfortable , I've discussed gender stereotypes with her and she understands that she can wear any clothing she likes or have particular interests. I used to tell my parents I wanted to be a boy as my brother was treated differently had a later curfew and more freedom. I'm so glad there was no transgender trend when I was growing up I'm perfectly happy with being a woman.

Are you in the UK? Are these prescriptions coming from GenderGP (Helen Webberley's company)? Can pharmacists refuse to fill these prescriptions, or at least query them, if they think they might be harmful to the child?

@OldCrone - yes in the uk and pharmacists can refuse to dispense as no legal obligation to dispense a private prescription unlike an NHS prescription which is part of a pharmacy's contract. I know many pharmacists who won't dispense due to potential harms taking them at such a young age