Exciting amount of recent converts

[Campervan69]

Just wanted to see if anyone else is having similar really. Have been doing my gc thang on Facebook for years with very little engagement. People messaging me quietly to say they agree but darent say anything publicly etc etc

Anyway recently been getting so much more support. Just posted something about Lia Thomas the swimmer and have 25 angry faces/tears emojis and 9 people have commented separately to say how unfair it is to the female swimmers. Have never had this level of positive support before. It's all really encouraging.

I needed to hear that as I have been extremely gloomy ever since reading about this swim travesty. I am fed up with everyone scavenging in the corpse of women's rights for the tidbits they want, and also fed up with anyone who protests against that being called a bigot and canceled. There really IS one set of rights which doesn't matter much, so we need to start using our vast numbers more effectively. We may not be in many positions of power, but we can vote and vote with our feet, too.

The tide is changing fast imo, and the more people who speak up, the braver others feel. I really think we're approaching a tipping point

That's really good to hear. I had a chat about this with friends today who've I've not raised this stuff with before, and they were on board. Tumbleweed on my FB post today though...

I have been talking about this more with people over the last few weeks. Older women seem really on top of it, really understand the absolute mess the gender ideology has brought in and they're angry.

Younger women are slowly getting it too, but many have been banging on about 'being kind' etc that they're finding it difficult to admit they may have misjudged the situation. Many of them are now quiet where before I've been called a bigot etc.

Older men haven't got a clue about what it's all about, but give them their due, once it's explained they get it too - lots of open mouths and 'what the fuck' expressions. Must admit to not talking to any younger men about it so can't comment. Not huge sample sizes I admit but a hint of a tide turn.

Yes, I've been chatting in real life with a lot of friends about this recently. They've broached it not me. I had a big argument a couple of years ago with my be kind Liberal sister in law so had avoided the subject with her for ages. Then recently on a night out she brought up the harassment of JKRowling, how she'd said nothing wrong, how awful the transactivists were... I was astounded tbh. She's done a complete volte face and is 100% on side now. I was overjoyed as I'd felt a bit gutted as she's intelligent and sensible.

Definitely from the huge influx of comments on Instagram in relation to the bleeders post. Over 2000 comments from some very angry and articulate women - a lot of younger women too.

My lefty liberal 17 year old brother (who to be fair was never a “terfs are all evil bigots!” type, he’s pretty good at nuance) told me the other day he’d gone away and read JK Rowling’s essay (on my suggestion) and he agreed with her. And he couldn’t understand the hate aimed at her. That was a nice moment.

Good work, Campervan and other commenters. This is encouraging news. I have noticed more informed comments recently. I think people are waking up.

I imagine even as we speak the guardian are frantically commissioning a range of articles saying “most oppresses/beeeekiind/they just want to pee” from the usual suspects

Let them. I don't actually know anyone who still reads the guardian sadly.

I used to read the Guardian online a lot, started to go off over their, imo, one sided cover of Corbyn (I know). I've really gone off it recently but still check it out most days. There have been a lot of articles about the T, there was the whole living in a women's body, a nonbi poet, a trans musher and so on. It was all a bit relentless. I haven't seen any such pieces in the past week. Perhaps the whole, what is a woman? has made them tone it down.

I've seen nothing on the site about the hospital rape. Facts are selective...?

Their censorship of my incredibly reasonable questions years ago about this issue was what got me interested in the whole debate initially. I couldn't believe they'd removed my words. They were so benign. I guessed that the same had happened to others and it felt like them trying to edit reality to pretend that everyone was of one opinion. I did not like that one bit.

I post stuff on FB...I haven’t got a job to lose, but practically no one ever even does any emoji let alone comments. Only long term radical feminist friends and a man. Astonished that other people are either not engaging at all or can’t bear to admit they might have been wrong, or are too frightened.

I haven't seen any change, except perhapsa bit worse. More women any age and men 20-35 willing to do a cold 'I'm disappointed' response to anyone who says anything that indicates women are a sex class. But then my FB feed has a lot of academics, medics and academic medics, because a lot of them move around a bit so I stay in touch on social media. I don't think anything has changed in those sectors.

@Campervan69

Let them. I don't actually know anyone who still reads the guardian sadly.

I pick discarded newspapers up from trains to use for lighting fires. Obviously the Metro turns up more than anything, but I don't think I've ever picked up a discarded Guardian, despite some of the really obscure papers which have turned up.

I think a lot of people have become more aware of the issue. I brought it up with some friends last summer and the one I thought would give the most push-back (very right-on) was in fact on-site and pretty well informed.

But we were just a group of middle aged mummies so what do we know...

I do a lot of Facebook posts, women do direct message me to I totally agree with you. That's what matters.

I had an interesting response to a post about Lia Thomas yesterday. It was from a woman heavily into extinction rebellion. She is pro trans rights but her teenage daughter ended up playing rugby against a boy in a competitive game (for girls). She isn't fully onboard with this.

The reality of including boys in girls' sports isn't something that can just be ignored under "be kind".

I'm still finding my circle just aren't interested enough, mostly view it as a feminist issue for short haired placard waving strident wimmins.

About 2 years ago I had an online argument about TW in women's prisons with my brother (who lives abroad) where he said I was "just like a white supremacist" (race was not even brought up, only the prison thing).

I have not touched the subject with him since. It was before JKR started Tweeting and before Lia Thomas, Kiera Bell, Stonewall fiasco, Texas law ruling etc etc.

He's visiting in June and I genuinely expect his position on this will have changed now given he's very in touch with news, politics etc. I'll be quite surprised if he's still going a gung-ho TWAW.

I'll wait for the conversation to come up though as I certainly won't mention it myself.

My work peers are still all on-board but it's Publishing. This is an area where reputation truely matters and there are no unions or work protections. Many of them are rapidly shouting TWAW very loudly and getting lots of positive reaction.

My circle of friends aren't interested as far as I know. I've got friends to read JKR's essay and they agree with her but somehow still aren't angry or interesting which I find astounding.

My hairdresser has peaked though! This is a good sign!

I've discovered a couple of fellow TERFs at work, one of whom is a lesbian. Interestingly she said something along the lines of becuase transpeople were in her "tribe", she was expected to give unconditional support, she most certainly doesn't.

@DPotter

I have been talking about this more with people over the last few weeks. Older women seem really on top of it, really understand the absolute mess the gender ideology has brought in and they're angry.

Younger women are slowly getting it too, but many have been banging on about 'being kind' etc that they're finding it difficult to admit they may have misjudged the situation. Many of them are now quiet where before I've been called a bigot etc.

Older men haven't got a clue about what it's all about, but give them their due, once it's explained they get it too - lots of open mouths and 'what the fuck' expressions. Must admit to not talking to any younger men about it so can't comment. Not huge sample sizes I admit but a hint of a tide turn.

I dont blame men, its human nature not to pay any attention to things that dont affect you.

but they certainly notice the sports people, when hubbard was in the Olympics, there was two camps of ordinary man on the street types, 1 absolutely disgusted by it, and the supportive types (not militant "be kind" but supportive on the fence).... until thy learned hubbard still had a full plate of sunday dinner, then they were disgusted too.

now with the swimmer I have seen nothing but disgust displayed and the "be kind" types are few and far between.

nothing like a intact male in female sports to get the message heard loud and clear imho.

As the press are now covering this in much more grim detail (Guardian & bbc excepted for obvious.... reasons...) hundreds of thousands of women are going, "what... Lia Thomas winning in swimming? women being renamed as bleeders, uterus havers etc, there are 8 "trans identifying children and 6 NB children in my child's class, my 11 year old's in a Stonewall group discussing sexuality with 16 year olds....." and so on.
It's become impossible to ignore with the harm happening to women children so self evident, they're forced to speak out.

A few more people I know are starting to talk about it, which is great, but still not really mainstream yet. Me and my pals are talking a lot about the menopause at the moment, and there are some tentative mentions of the crap women have to go through etc, which I feel might segway into trans rights when more people notice it.

A lot of people are totally on board and militantly TWAW until the moment they are not. Until the moment they see something absolutely bewildering. Maybe until the moment they come face to face with something that makes them uncomfortable or unsafe.

But I remember Helen Joyce saying something on the Mess lady's day special : she said there is no way of telling who is going to object to your GC views, and no way of telling who is going to get cross about it, or who is going to agree with you. I have been surprised myself at a couple of people who have been very offended at the idea that you might want talk about what is happening. They talk about 'really vulnerable people' needing help and services and how trans people are the most vulnerable to abuse and it would be wrong to demonise them for the actions of a few.

We will get there, though, and I think it will be when more detransitioners come forward.....