Gender id v gender reassignment

[Dinosaurhearmeroar]

This might have already been addressed but I genuinely am a little flummoxed about what the difference is. I know gender reassignment is a protected characteristic and gender identity is it BUT if gender identity is how you view yourself eg I want to be called Paul and I identify as a man, doesn’t that then fall under gender reassignment as that includes somebody at the beginning of a transition etc?

I’m utterly confused 😂 can anyone help?

Thanks 😊

Typo - meant to say “gender id is NOT a protected characteristic”

What you mention is exactly the problem with the loosely worded legislation in the gender recognition act. And there are definitely those who would argue that the moment you declare "I am Paul" you have the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment. The reality of it is having to be slowly thrashed out in case law.

An important distinction made so far is that of "comparators". Until the point of actually obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate (and in some cases after that I think?), the comparator is a person of the same sex. So a transwoman is legally male and therefore to prove discrimination they would need to show that they were being treated unfairly conpared to other males. So, for example, if a TW is refused a promotion because they are trans, then they have a case because they have been treated worse than a male who is not trans But if the same TW is prohibited from applying for a female-only role, such as Women's Officer, then they would not have a case as they are not being treated worse than other males.

This is the law as established by UK case law (can't remember the name of the case, but I think it related to a transwoman in a male prison wanting the right to have particular wigs and make-up).

However, most organisations don't really know the law and are scared of the bad publicity/physical threats they might receive if they deny a TW the right to access female spaces

Trans people are protected from discrimination under the EA2010 which vaguely refers to people undergoing or planning to undergo SRS.

What that does NOT mean is that trans people should be treated as the opposite sex. It simply does not mean that. Stonewall will have you believe it does but they're entirely untrustworthy.

It just means if you lose your job because you're trans, that's a case for discrimination. It doesn't mean male rapists get to be housed in women's prisons. That's just the EA2020. Even under the GRA, male rapists shouldn't be housed with female prisoners.

Why that has happened is because institutions have been repeatedly lied to about the law by lobby groups.

It doesn't mean male rapists get to be housed in women's prisons. That's just the EA2010. Even under the GRA, male rapists shouldn't be housed with female prisoners.

^ typo correction

Badly made law, badly worded, very very much exploited, to the point its now an unholy mess.

The GRA needs repealing.

Female spaces are for female people and are not a male resource. If male spaces no longer cater for or include all male people that's a difference problem to sort out.

@sharksarecool very well explained - thank you.

@Dinosaurhearmeroar

This might have already been addressed but I genuinely am a little flummoxed about what the difference is. I know gender reassignment is a protected characteristic and gender identity is it BUT if gender identity is how you view yourself eg I want to be called Paul and I identify as a man, doesn’t that then fall under gender reassignment as that includes somebody at the beginning of a transition etc?

I’m utterly confused 😂 can anyone help?

Thanks 😊

According to English law, a person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

[ See Equality Act 2010 7(1) ]

-- A person with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment is called a 'transsexual person'. [ibid 7(2)]

Contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, there really is no such thing as gender identity. Nor is it referred to in legislation, as far as I know. (If I am wrong about this, I would be grateful for a reference.)

Probably best, then, not to refer to 'gender identity' at all. It just confuses everything when people try to talk about it, especially as there is no such thing.

@9toenails agree with you - I don’t have a gender Id, I just am a woman. But it does ostensibly exist because so many people are using the term regardless of whether it’s a thing or not. Gender identity has never been defined as it is based on feeling rather than facts and is a belief (much like the concept of a soul) but it is out there and is screwing the law up and the lives of young people.

When you parse the relevant statutory wording, the breadth of what it covers becomes clear:

A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7