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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New School Policy

31 replies

Thumpsquids · 16/03/2022 11:20

I'm a member of the board of governors for the primary school I work at, and am the parent of a student that also attends.

I've just been sent an updated list of school policies, which are due to be discussed at the next meeting.

Under the protected characteristics section, and the gender reassignment section, is offers the following:

'The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful for an individual or group of individuals to be discriminated against (either directly or indirectly) because of their gender reassignment. Gender reassignment is defined as applying to anyone who is currently undergoing, has undergone or is proposing to undergo a process or part of a process of reassigning their sex to the opposite sex by changing their physical or other attributes. There is no requirement to undergo, or plan to undergo, a medical procedure – taking steps to live life as the opposite sex, or planning to live life as the opposite sex, is sufficient.

Schools must ensure that a student, parent, visitor or other person coming into contact with the school (or a group of these people) are not treated less favourably than others because they, their parents or somebody that they associate with has undergone, is planning to undergo or is in the process of undergoing gender reassignment. Students must be included within a class of the sex that they identify with.'

I'm aware that the first chunk is largely a copy and paste job, but the latter bits, especially that last sentence, concerned me. I know I need to have a rummage through the SSA:UK website among others, but wondered if anyone else shared my concern?

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 16/03/2022 11:25

Yeah, I'd be getting ready to contest that, particularly the guidance around separate facilities, and also maybe around the fact that social transition is not neutral.

Eachpeachporch · 16/03/2022 11:43

Only adults can be granted a gender reassignment certificate. The law does not apply to children.

ElaineFuchs · 16/03/2022 15:05

@Eachpeachporch

Only adults can be granted a gender reassignment certificate. The law does not apply to children.
One doesn't need a GRC to be protected from discrimination on this basis.
foodfiend · 16/03/2022 19:18

This is the kind of thing that could get nodded through as everyone wants to be nice and inclusive, and the next thing you know you're dealing with the practical implications of eg male pupils using the girls loos, or a vulnerable female pupil saying it's her right to sleep in the boys' dormitory on a school trip. And parents asking you what on earth were you thinking.

IANAL but as I understand it, the whole statement is quite correct, up until the final sentence which takes a gigantic leap into complete fabrication. (Quite sneaky, having lulled the reader into nodding along thus far.)

Gender reassignment, as described, is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act 2010. It is against the law to discriminate against someone on that basis. I think we're all likely on board with that. However, it does not say in the Equality Act (or anywhere else) that this means that a person must be treated as if they were the opposite sex. The Equality Act contains specific single-sex exemptions of scenarios where single sex services or facilities are permitted, such as sleeping accommodation, and which apply even if a person has a GRC, (which a school student couldn't have anyway).

The phrasing "Students must be included within a class of the sex that they identify with." is a bit odd. Presumably it means 'sex class' rather than 'school class'. What does that mean for students who identify as non-binary and precisely don't identify with either sex? (In dc's school most of the children identifying as trans are NB.)

foodfiend · 16/03/2022 19:38

What's the context @Thumpsquids - is it a wider equality and inclusion policy? Does it also cover other protected characteristics?

Sex matters and Safe Schools Alliance have useful resources:
sex-matters.org/posts/publications/schools-guidance-2/
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/

Here are some questions I'd be raising:

  • Where did this wording come from?
  • Has it been reviewed by someone with broad knowledge of equality law (rather than an advocacy organisation with a position on what they think the law ought to be)?
  • Have we considered what this sentence means in practice? (Loos, dormitories/bedrooms for trips, changing rooms, competitive sports)
  • Have we risk assessed the above?
  • Have we considered how this might impact other people with protected characteristics (particularly sex, religion/belief, disability)
  • If so, how do we plan to manage those risks and impacts?

You could also reference the Cass review interim report, which clearly states that social transition is 'an active intervention' which should be carefully considered. In this light, should the school really be adopting a policy which obliges it to make this active intervention, apparently on request.

foodfiend · 16/03/2022 19:47

Alternatively of course you could just ask the governors if they really want to take responsibility for anything that happens on a trip where a female child is sleeping in a bedroom with a group of boys.

happydappy2 · 16/03/2022 19:48

Also schools should recognise that not everyone believes in gender ideology. If a child or adult identifies as the opposite sex (or no sex) other students & teachers have the right to recognise them as the sex they truly are.

ResisterRex · 16/03/2022 20:01

Ask them where this bit is stated in law and for examples of how and when it would apply:

Students must be included within a class of the sex that they identify with

It'll flush the issues out.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 16/03/2022 20:03

Students must be included within a class of the sex that they identify with

This is bullshit for a start. Schools are meant to provide single sex provision over age 8. They are legally allowed to keep male pupils out of female facilities. It is also basic bloody safeguarding.

The comparator for gender reassignment is with others of their own sex, so a transwomen must not be discriminated against or treated less favourably than other MEN, not women.

The school are also actively discriminating against female pupils with this policy and any pupil that doesn't buy into the new religion of gender ideology, their right not to believe is protected.

Putting one set of pupils wants above all others is not on.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/03/2022 20:19

There's some good advice here OP. As you're primary based, here's a brilliant article about the massive dangers of socially transitioning young children and the negative consequences for their mental health and psychological identity when as they reach puberty :

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

OperationDessertStorm · 16/03/2022 20:30

So the school are backing the end of all single sex spaces, sports and employment?

Everything is now mixed sex? Olympic sports? Prisons? Medical care?

They are teaching all students that ‘gender identity’ matters more than sex?

They are teaching girls about to go up to secondary school (and further independence and much less supervision) that any person has access to spaces where they are sleeping, showering and changing because of an identity and they cannot say anything?

They are willing to supervise mixed sex changing rooms, sports and overnight trips?

They are able to explain to parents who have religious requirements for single sex spaces why they cannot be accommodated?

They are able to explain to parents and students what non binary and gender fluid means and what access these people have in law?

They would be able to explain to an enquiry or police investigation why they put these policies into place if anything did go wrong in the next few years? (And why they’ve ignored data on patterns of offending, sport, who is more likely to get assaulted or impregnated etc)

bishophaha · 16/03/2022 20:34

I'd want specifics on what constitutes "identifying with a sex". Just a statement?
Does it have to be a "sincerely held belief" that they empathise with that sex, or could they be pretending?

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 16/03/2022 20:39

I think the EHRC have issued clear guidance that the right comparator is the sex the person is transitioning from, and so that draft policy is completely wrong. Look at the advice the university of Essex got in the Jo phoenix case. Your school has a classic case of stonewall law not actual law. The female children over the age of 8 have the absolute right to single sex places.

Linguini · 16/03/2022 20:43

The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful for an individual or group of individuals to be discriminated against (either directly or indirectly) because of their gender reassignment.

The exemptions in the EA2010 lay out clearly that people in this group can be lawfully excluded fro single sex spaces (eg a class, ward, facility or group).

The clue is in the word "Equality" and the key phrase within the equality act regarding same sex spaces is 'a proportionate means to a legitimate aim'.

I find this thread really helps clear it up
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3175666-Want-to-know-why-women-are-livid-trans-thread

Ionlydomassiveones · 16/03/2022 21:00

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

maddy68 · 16/03/2022 21:09

but its not always a choice...what about those (such as a member of my family) who was born with both sexes, a decision was made for him at the time and over several years has had ongoing surgery would you rather complicate his ongoing mental and physical trauma further? or would you rather he was treated like a "real" boy as all his family and peers do ( peers actually would have no idea)

Artichokeleaves · 16/03/2022 21:09

The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful for an individual or group of individuals to be discriminated against (either directly or indirectly) for nine characteristics, not just one

The EqA2010 is not the T act. It is also not the T trumps everyone else act.

NONE of those individuals or groups can be discriminated against, or be treated less favourably on the grounds of their characteristic.

Some of those characteristics will mean that mixed sex provisions are inaccessible to them and discriminate against them on the ground of their characteristic.

This means that blanket policy that favours T pupils' wishes over all other characteristics is likely to be discriminatory.

The answer is Reasonable Adjustments (see EqA2010, it involves school actually reading it instead of importing their thinking from a lobby group with no qualification or knowledge beyond their own personal politics and own group), which mean that ALL needs are equally accommodated and answers are found that work for all.

RobinMoiraWhite · 16/03/2022 21:10

@happydappy2

Also schools should recognise that not everyone believes in gender ideology. If a child or adult identifies as the opposite sex (or no sex) other students & teachers have the right to recognise them as the sex they truly are.
Really? Where do you believe that students or teachers have a right to know sensitive personal information about others? SOME teachers might need to know but it wouldn’t be a right, would it?
Artichokeleaves · 16/03/2022 21:14

@maddy68

but its not always a choice...what about those (such as a member of my family) who was born with both sexes, a decision was made for him at the time and over several years has had ongoing surgery would you rather complicate his ongoing mental and physical trauma further? or would you rather he was treated like a "real" boy as all his family and peers do ( peers actually would have no idea)
Children with DSD are not trans. They are exceptionally rare. This is a medical need. The child will be covered by reasonable adjustments which will take into account the needs of all concerned.

It will not create a blanket policy that removes single sex provision from all children to unfairly prioritise the needs of TQ+ children, a measure likely to cause other children with protected characteristics to be directly or indirectly discriminated against. People with DSD have repeatedly asked not to be weaponised in this.

DogsAndGin · 16/03/2022 21:17

But it’s a primary school - they all get changed together in the classroom, anyway. And there are cubicles for boys and girls separately so it hardly matters

CharlieParley · 16/03/2022 21:23

Especially given that you’re a primary school and children age 4-11 are generally not formally considered trans or seeking formal gender transition and therefore are not classed as trans under the EA

This is wrong. The protected characteristic of gender reassignment applies to all people who identify as trans, there is no lower age limit. There is also no such thing as "being formally considered trans" or a "formal gender transition". The protected characteristic of gender reassignment applies regardless of whether someone has a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria or transitions in any way.

To the OP: the policy seems to be written in a way that sets the reader up to think that having the protected characteristic of gender reassignment and being protected from discrimination equals inclusion in opposite sex spaces.

The last sentence is incorrect, and should be rewritten to say:

"Students must be included in the provisions for their own sex unless they request not to be, in which case the school must make reasonable, alternative arrangements, such as offering a separate changing room or use of a fully enclosed toilet."

Linguini · 16/03/2022 21:40

@maddy68

but its not always a choice...what about those (such as a member of my family) who was born with both sexes, a decision was made for him at the time and over several years has had ongoing surgery would you rather complicate his ongoing mental and physical trauma further? or would you rather he was treated like a "real" boy as all his family and peers do ( peers actually would have no idea)
No one is born "with both sexes".

If you actually talk to your family member I'm sure they'll be able to explain that to you.

Thumpsquids · 17/03/2022 09:42

Thank you, all, for your time. I have lots of things to be asking and challenging. I'll report back!

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 17/03/2022 13:26

I hope someone more knowledgeable comes on. I think you should get in touch with the Safe Schools Alliance.

Also read the interim Cass report and have everyone on the board read it. One of the things I think it said was that school’s ‘affirming’ gender is not their place because it is like confirming a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before the child has seen a medical specialist to look into all the other factors ( autism, past trauma, sexual abuse, coming from care) which could be affecting them.

Also a child under 18 cannot have Gender Reassignment. You said you are in a primary school!

foodfiend · 17/03/2022 17:06

Yes - there's no clear definition of 'trans' (I don't think the 'trans umbrella' helps us much here in relation to children. Both of my kids did plenty of cross dressing during their 'dress up' years and I don't think anyone would consider that signifying anything much!) So what we have, in law, is the very broad definition of 'gender reassignment'. This doesn't rule out children, and doesn't require any particular action, treatment or process to be happening.

It would have been great if trans advocacy organisations had been encouraging schools to take up the kind of approach Charlie is suggesting - this sounds like a sensible way to balance the rights, needs and safety of all the children.

Unfortunately the toolkits and guidance often misrepresent the law and mislead schools into thinking that there's a legal obligation to treat children as if they were the opposite sex, and that it would be discriminatory not to eg put a male child in the girls dormitory if that's what they want. All children, including of course those who identify as trans, are put at risk when schools feel they have to set aside normal safeguarding rules in this way.

I think a school would still want to tread very carefully about adopting a policy where special arrangements must be provided on request. Whose request? And what's the process? Can anyone request this? That also needs a discussion in relation to the issues around social transition as an active intervention, as above.

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