Mother of transgender child in i newspaper today

[Bloodybridget]

I read this article in the print version of the i today. I don't know anything about Marlo Mack or her child, and am quite willing to believe that she intends to do the absolute best for the kid. But her daughter was prescribed puberty blockers at the age of 12, so has been taking them for two years, and this is presented as completely unproblematic and in the same breath, so to speak, as the "high prevalence of self-harm" in trans children and young people - which according to many people on FWR threads is very much exaggerated, and when it does occur is very often linked to other issues such as ASD and eating disorders.

I'm absolutely not denying that some children have a strong sense of being in the "wrong body" from an early age, and may be very distressed at the prospect of getting the secondary sexual characteristics that come with puberty. However, I do wish there was more coverage in the media of the risks of hormone treatments for kids, and their irreversible effects. Are journalists/editors/publishers just too nervous about upsetting the TRAs?

Thanks for posting this.

It is just stereotypes.

Purple dresses, long blonde hair, butterflies.

Conservative stereotypes and parents who are too scared, homophobic or thick to understand that, although it may be hard, your child doesn't have to conform to the stereotypes associated with their sex.

If the FOUR YEAR OLD child has the sense of being in the 'wrong body" it is due to the fact childhood is horrifically gendered at the moment. Pink princesses and blue footballers etc. Actually it's not even due to that, it is due to their parents discomfort with the fact they didn't neatly fit into the right coloured box.

No child OF FOUR has genuine disgust of their own genitalia (the one thing that makes a 4 year old girl different to a 4 year old boy) unless their parents have instilled it in them or they've experienced sexual abuse.

The way the article talks about saving lives is disgusting. Children die in war zones, in famines, and of cancer for fucks sake.

Is this because someone knew that there was about to be a publication from The Cass Review?

There seems to be a never ending supply of these PR pieces every time something comes up in the real world that might deflect from the message.

@FunnyTalks

Thanks for posting this.

It is just stereotypes.

Purple dresses, long blonde hair, butterflies.

Conservative stereotypes and parents who are too scared, homophobic or thick to understand that, although it may be hard, your child doesn't have to conform to the stereotypes associated with their sex.

If the FOUR YEAR OLD child has the sense of being in the 'wrong body" it is due to the fact childhood is horrifically gendered at the moment. Pink princesses and blue footballers etc. Actually it's not even due to that, it is due to their parents discomfort with the fact they didn't neatly fit into the right coloured box.

No child OF FOUR has genuine disgust of their own genitalia (the one thing that makes a 4 year old girl different to a 4 year old boy) unless their parents have instilled it in them or they've experienced sexual abuse.

The way the article talks about saving lives is disgusting. Children die in war zones, in famines, and of cancer for fucks sake.

Wow! Well said!

@Melroses

Is this because someone knew that there was about to be a publication from The Cass Review?

There seems to be a never ending supply of these PR pieces every time something comes up in the real world that might deflect from the message.

Yes and I welcome them.

I show them to people I know and if they still can't see the problem, I feel OK about letting the friendship slide.

This is it for me:

When we arrived, I left her to glue and scribble, looking happy and unconcerned, and went into the room next door to learn how to keep her that way.

So desperate to keep her what... passive, not difficult, not a teenager? I think she wants to keep her a child forever. Puberty is difficult for everyone. Being a parent means supporting them through that change, not stopping it altogether for a quiet perfect life!

I agree with the dude from Texas. It is child abuse.

I would love to know what they all feel constituted bullying/ tormenting etc that these kids need protecting from.

Often ir seems to mean stating reality . Setting kids up for the idea that anyone who doesn't play along is out to get them regardless of whether or not they actually do anything. Alot of trans activists seems to he creating problems where they weren't any. Seeking out scenarios in which they know something will cause an issue and deliberately causing that issue just so they remain a victim some how.

And I would also love to know what the child can do on puberty blockers that they couldn't do befire without them? Yes your body changes but thats nature. It has to happen. But that doesn't mean you can't do all the things you were doing before. The only thing it would affect is your ability to live a life of deception. Should someone's medical care be based around a need to deceive / thick others I to playing along with something that's not actually their responsibility .

That's a shaky ground for a medical.plan.

Ah, Marlo Mack.

Maker of this youtube video.

I recall it being linked to in Scottish RSHP lessons and we discussed it on Mumsnet.

One MNer - an ex Catholic - noticed that if you turn the volume up very loud you can hear someone chanting Hail Marys very faintly in the background.

she blogs as 'gendermom' and has just released a memoir about raising a transgender daughter. Available in all good bookshops now! She also has a podcast!

gendermom.wordpress.com/

Well, I wasn't going to comment on the article generally, just the business re puberty blockers, but I completely agree re gender stereotypes.

That video is seven shades of creepy. Why does it have all that RC chanting in it? Made me think of The Exorcist....

If the FOUR YEAR OLD child has the sense of being in the 'wrong body" it is due to the fact childhood is horrifically gendered at the moment. Pink princesses and blue footballers etc. Actually it's not even due to that, it is due to their parents discomfort with the fact they didn't neatly fit into the right coloured box.

I think the argument I hear about this from their side is that the child uses the opposite stereotypes to signify that they are not X because life is extremely gendered as you say, so they know what these signifiers mean.

However, I do agree with you.

My DD is going through a massive "I don't want to be a girl, girls aren't cool, I want to be a boy and I want to look like a boy" thing atm. She won't accept anything she sees as "for girls" and just wants everything that she sees as being "for boys". Of course, I tell her it's for everyone really, but kids do pick up on societal ideas about gender stereotypes. Most of her friends at school are boys and one of the mum's of one of these boys said "Your daughter is the only girl my son plays with/talks about because she is into all the same things as him". She won't watch any "girl movies/TV shows" or wear any "girl clothes" and always asks for "cool boys toys". She says girls just aren't cool and she's "just" a girl but doesn't want to he because boys are better at football and if she's a girl then the boys won't let her play with them. She does get very upset. She's 6.

It's so sad what stereotypes do to children.

I’m body going to say this once because it’s pretty sad…

I was quite an odd child - a very sad one in many ways. There wasn’t any abuse but I was one of a growl of kids with busy parents.

I didn’t want to exist and I can’t say that’s changed all that much as I’ve grown up and older. It was normal to me and most people don’t understand my ‘I don’t want to be here philosophy. It’s not melodramatic, it’s not a threat or a statement of intent. I can usually take it or leave it and have always felt this way for as long as I can remember.

So - my parents what, should have what - drowned me at the age of 4?

Actually it's not even due to that, it is due to their parents discomfort with the fact they didn't neatly fit into the right coloured box.

I would disagree with that. I've always raised my DD that she can like princesses and superheroes, football or ballet, fairies and knights, that she can wear what clothes she likes, that pink and blue and glitter are for girls and boys, etc. And I don't mind that she doesn't want the "girl" stuff, but I do care that she thinks that she wants to be a boy because of that and that she has cried about it, and that's despite all my trying to not enforce stereotypes on her at home. I keep telling her she's a girl but that doesn't mean she can't do X Y Z or like X Y Z.

I am worried about what could happen in her head once any mention of trans happens at school.

Oh god that video.

Its funny how GC feminists are accused of mot wanting trans people to exist yet all these talks and explanation videos all basically talk themselves out if existence . Not us

Kitten. I hope you don't mind me saying, and please ignore if this is not appropriate, but have you looked into this further?

I know one becomes accustomed to thinking things to the extent we think they are innate, and will never change, but those kind of thoughts are not neutral, if you see what I mean.

Sometimes we are quite good at covering up hurt and pain, or even good at maintaining a damaging personal narrative, and can do a lot of justification to avoid looking too closely at it. Sometimes a trusted friend or professional can help us to navigate through it and it can be surprising to find what we thought of as fixed fact is in fact ... well. Transient. Mutable.

Wishing you all the very best.

@Vitani

Actually it's not even due to that, it is due to their parents discomfort with the fact they didn't neatly fit into the right coloured box.

I would disagree with that. I've always raised my DD that she can like princesses and superheroes, football or ballet, fairies and knights, that she can wear what clothes she likes, that pink and blue and glitter are for girls and boys, etc. And I don't mind that she doesn't want the "girl" stuff, but I do care that she thinks that she wants to be a boy because of that and that she has cried about it, and that's despite all my trying to not enforce stereotypes on her at home. I keep telling her she's a girl but that doesn't mean she can't do X Y Z or like X Y Z.

I am worried about what could happen in her head once any mention of trans happens at school.

I hear you re worrying what children will be taught. I keep a close eye on school's RSHP and have also made sure my kids are clear on basic, age appropriate biology.

School and the wider environment, media etc, can have quite a strong effect on children but it won't rival the influence of parents for quite some years, yet. We held tight through the sparkles phase, the princess phase, the 'Ill never cut my hair phase', the 'I hate pink' phase and they've all passed, so far. (This has been for both children, of either sex, btw). Both are apparently becomign more comfortable with what stereotypes are and how they relate to them/against them, as they get older.

'I hate pink' phase and they've all passed, so far. (This has been for both children, of either sex, btw). Both are apparently becomign more comfortable with what stereotypes are and how they relate to them/against them, as they get older.

This gives me some hope, she has always had a preference for the male characters on TV or in books etc anyway, but since starting school and very much gravitating towards the boys (and I think often the boys don't want to play with the girls etc at playtime ATM), she has definitely began a very strong "I hate everything related to girls because it's not cool" stage. You give me some hope this will change to a more balanced idea of what stereotypes are and how she can he a girl and be comfortable without all that.

@vitani I have this with both of my children because I raised them as gender neutral as possible (ie to like everything they wanted to like). It was how my siblings and I were raised and I stupidly thought it was normal.

I agree it can be very painful. Of course this is the language a small child would use to express their discomfort with the world as they find it. How else would they express it when adults can't even understand or explain the existence of gender stereotypes half the time.

I'm not suggesting that a child feeling discomfort is the parent's fault. Quite the opposite! Half of the reason I rage against this ideology is precisely because it targets children like mine, who aren't stereotypes, and tells them to change their bodies in order to fit in.

I am far from safely through this with my children and I don't judge the parents desperate to keep avenues of communication open with teens hell bent on transitioning.

But I do judge parents who blindly affirm and, worse, use their child's issues as a proxy for gaining attention.

@Vitani

'I hate pink' phase and they've all passed, so far. (This has been for both children, of either sex, btw). Both are apparently becomign more comfortable with what stereotypes are and how they relate to them/against them, as they get older.

This gives me some hope, she has always had a preference for the male characters on TV or in books etc anyway, but since starting school and very much gravitating towards the boys (and I think often the boys don't want to play with the girls etc at playtime ATM), she has definitely began a very strong "I hate everything related to girls because it's not cool" stage. You give me some hope this will change to a more balanced idea of what stereotypes are and how she can he a girl and be comfortable without all that.

It is worth approaching the school if there is a lot of trouble with boys and girls not mixing. I did with my eldest and the school were fantastic and actually made several changes and interventions.

@KittenKong

I’m body going to say this once because it’s pretty sad…

I was quite an odd child - a very sad one in many ways. There wasn’t any abuse but I was one of a growl of kids with busy parents.

I didn’t want to exist and I can’t say that’s changed all that much as I’ve grown up and older. It was normal to me and most people don’t understand my ‘I don’t want to be here philosophy. It’s not melodramatic, it’s not a threat or a statement of intent. I can usually take it or leave it and have always felt this way for as long as I can remember.

So - my parents what, should have what - drowned me at the age of 4?

I hope you have something in your life that brings you happiness now, KittenKong. And friends, and solidarity.

@Vitani

'I hate pink' phase and they've all passed, so far. (This has been for both children, of either sex, btw). Both are apparently becomign more comfortable with what stereotypes are and how they relate to them/against them, as they get older.

This gives me some hope, she has always had a preference for the male characters on TV or in books etc anyway, but since starting school and very much gravitating towards the boys (and I think often the boys don't want to play with the girls etc at playtime ATM), she has definitely began a very strong "I hate everything related to girls because it's not cool" stage. You give me some hope this will change to a more balanced idea of what stereotypes are and how she can he a girl and be comfortable without all that.

There could be loads of reasons for that. I've tried in general to just accept and listen and maybe ask questions for the most part. So if your daughter's not distressed and it isn't a big deal then it's probably nothing to worry about and likely to pass. If there's something causing her grief then it may be worth gently exploring that - playing it out, doing lots of active listening, etc. And maybe a bit of coaching to show her that girls can be cool, strong, brave, fun, whatever - 'a mighty girl' has some good resources for books & toys to empower girls. 'Playful parenting' is a fab book that I found really useful - and reassuring, actually.

@kittenkong I don't know if it was a typo but 'growl of kids' is an awesome turn of phrase.

My sister and I had male alter egos when we were kids (Jimmy and Steven), we never played out 'as girls'. Boys had much more fun, in books, on tv, etc. I wanted to be a boy, being a girl was rubbish. I grew out of it. I doubt my parents even noticed.

Crowd - it could be loud sometimes but not a growl. My sister had a male alter ego when we played and she gave me one too. We had action men and meccano, space rockets and cars, and played with dads architect building models.

I just imagined a child that was quiet but fierce. We didn't have many toys but we had each other and a stream near the house.

I'm horrified that anyone thinks it's ethical to do this to children when the problem is that we have gone backwards on stereotypes. After years of teaching kids that boys can be nurses and girls can be soldiers if they wish we are now telling them yeah you can but if you do it means you are the wrong gender..
The law suits in 20 years will be horrendous!

I've said before if this had been around when I was little I would have been a prime candidate..I railed against the girls can't do this or that and hated being a girl. I dressed like a boy, short hair, friends with more boys than girls. Pretend games I was male roles, I was Hutch playing Starsky and Hutch, Bodie in The Professionals, Robin Hood..a Prince you get the picture!
I'm now mid 50s, still not girly, play traditional male sports and martial arts. I wear jeans, jumpers, hoodies. I'm also married to a man, a mother and grandmother. No confusion about my gender just refuse to act as stereotype.

Oh and when people meet me particularly through sports they presume I'm lesbian. That causes more confusion when they realise I have a husband and am straight 😆 just can't escape stereotypes!