ceo gone back on promise re: gender neutral toilets

[JenniferAlisonPhilipaSue]

After our CEO promising the company would not introduce gender neutral toilets, our accessible toilets are being turned into gender neutral toilets. As a disabled woman who cannot use 'normal' toilets, this means potentially more competition for a toilet, and a longer wait for the single one on each floor to be free. It means having to go between floors to find an unoccupied one, which can be difficult. I know I share a toilet with a male (my DH) at home, but every time a male has used accessible toilets at work, the place absolutely reeks. They usually use it to have their smelliest shits as they think they can be as smelly and as noisy as they like and not be heard etc but how is that fair to the next user, the disabled person, who has nowhere else to go? And if that wasn't bad enough, its now a gender neutral toilet. I just don't think its fair as disabled employees are already limited in our options and this is a disability charity I work for, with vulnerable disabled staff and service users. What, if anything can I do? We aren't unionised and I've tried anonymously complaining before to no avail.

I can understand your objection to accessible toilets just becoming ones for anyone to use. But I can't get behind you on your objection to disabled males using them at the moment if they are not single sex. Nor is it just disabled males who leave toilets smelly. Yes that is unpleasant for the next user but smelly stools is a symptom of many disabling conditions which may be why they need to use accessible toilets in the first place.

What were the reasons for mixed sex (not 'gender neutral') being rejected in general? Do any of those reasons also apply to the disabled loos? ( i.e. something other than adequate partitioning/washbasins in cubicles). If there is something like that then perhaps you could make a clear case for the disabled loos being mixed sex being discriminatory vs provision for able bodied people, rather than getting into the 'smelly shit' type of complaint.

Hang on - so the accessible loos are now ‘everyone loo’?

I wasn't meaning disabled men using them beforehand, I was meaning non-disabled men were using them before (not for gender reasons) and now that they are gender neutral, yes, they are now 'everyone' loos.

Stuff that. One piece of actual inclusion and they take it away. Have you spoken to HR?

In my experience most disabled toilets are unisex. Additionally they can be for everyone but normally a sign is put on the toilet along the lines of “ please give priority to disabled employees who may not be able to wait. Remember not all disabilities are visible”

Could you email the CEO and a) ask for a similar sign b) ask that on the inside there is a sign stating “Out of courtesy please make sure you clean the toilet before leaving.”

Yes I know b) is pointless but at least it makes a point. To be honest, pee on the seat and especially on the floor is the reason I hate unisex toilets, nothing to do with Transgender.

The problem with this is that most - not all - but most people know that you should only use an accessible toilet if you genuinely need that particular toilet.

But if you make it a “gender neutral and accessible” toilet then that means that it is - first and foremost - a toilet for everyone. And so the “this is only a toilet for those that need this particular toilet” message is lost.

It could quite easily become a toilet that everyone uses and no one even realises that that leaves people with disabilities with no toilet that they can access quickly.

I can see your issue. It's no longer a toilet for disabled people (and entitled men who want a peaceful poo). It's now a toilet for anyone and everyone.

Thus your provisions of disabled toilets have been reduced to nil. At a disability charity.

I'd be surprised if this doesn't contravene the Disability Discrimination Act as your employer is not making reasonable adjustments for their employees who may need (very quickly in some cases) an accessible toilet. I'd seek advice on this if I were you.

The Equality Act, the Disability Discrimination Act was superseded by this along with all the other equality legislation. But yes, it would be worth asking to see their equality impact assessment.

Where's the Impact Assessment?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

The Equality Act, the Disability Discrimination Act was superseded by this along with all the other equality legislation. But yes, it would be worth asking to see their equality impact assessment.

Thank you - my brain went automatically back to when I undertook disability awareness training in my first job!

Be careful how you word the request and focus on the disability aspect - say something like ''can you provide the Equality Impact Assessment on the impact of making the accessible toilets open to more people including those who do not have a disability?''

Thanks @MumThatsNotFair - that's exactly what I am meaning

good advice on EQI too

@Waitwhat23

I'd be surprised if this doesn't contravene the Disability Discrimination Act as your employer is not making reasonable adjustments for their employees who may need (very quickly in some cases) an accessible toilet. I'd seek advice on this if I were you.

I agree with this. But I don't think it's fair to say 'They usually use it to have their smelliest shits'; maybe it's just me, but I can't predict or control how smelly my shits are going to be...

@JenniferAlisonPhilipaSue

After our CEO promising the company would not introduce gender neutral toilets, our accessible toilets are being turned into gender neutral toilets. As a disabled woman who cannot use 'normal' toilets, this means potentially more competition for a toilet, and a longer wait for the single one on each floor to be free. It means having to go between floors to find an unoccupied one, which can be difficult. I know I share a toilet with a male (my DH) at home, but every time a male has used accessible toilets at work, the place absolutely reeks. They usually use it to have their smelliest shits as they think they can be as smelly and as noisy as they like and not be heard etc but how is that fair to the next user, the disabled person, who has nowhere else to go? And if that wasn't bad enough, its now a gender neutral toilet. I just don't think its fair as disabled employees are already limited in our options and this is a disability charity I work for, with vulnerable disabled staff and service users. What, if anything can I do? We aren't unionised and I've tried anonymously complaining before to no avail.

Scientifically it has been proven that women's waste products smell more than men's, or at least their farts do.

Farts Smell

Scientifically it has been proven that women's waste products smell more than men's, or at least their farts do.

Recently, we were referred to a Twitter bot for something or other (definition of a woman?) and today we're being referred to the well known Teens Medical Journal, Seventeen .

Levitt's body of work: www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Michael-D-Levitt-39366152

Anybody who is interested might want to explore relatively diet content, the number of people in the studies, and concentration per dimorphic distribution of volumes of gas. And then consider wider issues.

Bots and Seventeen …How very predictable from a certain sort of commentator and the misogyny that informs their critical analysis and engagement.

Tbf, it is pretty remarkable that your internal gender identity can significantly change how your farts smell.

Apparently womens farts smell worse than mens. I read that somewhere…

Tbf, it is pretty remarkable that your internal gender identity can significantly change how your farts smell.

Yes!

Back to main point of thread after the 13 yr old stylee comment; I'm wondering if oc health is also able to support?

They once explained that technically a medical condition I have is covered by the disability act. I don't see my self as such at all, but it's a legal thing. So they may be able to support you.

I would have assumed (given the whole gender ideology definition of women seems to = long swishy hair, long painted nails and giggling along with other gender stereotypes) that gender identity farts would smell like -

Woman farts - flowers, glitter and sweeties

Man farts - pizza, beer and circular saws

I would also go down route of the facility being removed and now your protected space is no longer protected.

@Lovelyricepudding

I can understand your objection to accessible toilets just becoming ones for anyone to use. But I can't get behind you on your objection to disabled males using them at the moment if they are not single sex. Nor is it just disabled males who leave toilets smelly. Yes that is unpleasant for the next user but smelly stools is a symptom of many disabling conditions which may be why they need to use accessible toilets in the first place.

They usually use it to have their smelliest shits as they think they can be as smelly and as noisy

What a ridiculous comment.

To be clear I meant the text in bold is ridiculous- not Lovelyricepudding's post.