In countries that have self-ID....?

[SunniDelite]

....in the event (Heaven forbid) of a world war, who would be conscripted? Would there be a (bigger) mass identifying into womanhood?

Couple of things. I doubt that any conflict that the UK would become involved in would have conscription. I'm not sure it's good for anyone's health to speculate about an unlikely nuclear conflict that nobody can identify out of. I know this sounds patronising but I'll say it anyway: Take a breath

@bellinisurge

Couple of things. I doubt that any conflict that the UK would become involved in would have conscription. I'm not sure it's good for anyone's health to speculate about an unlikely nuclear conflict that nobody can identify out of. I know this sounds patronising but I'll say it anyway: Take a breath

Completely missed the point there. It’s not about the U.K. (as per the title)!

Thanks, for your concern for my health, @bellinisurge, but I'm fine thank you. Just having a little wonder, if that's OK with you... :)

I have also wondered about this, OP. My musings started with hearing that some people are agitating for sex to be removed from birth certificates. I'd assumed that info had been essential in knowing who to call up (and who not to call up). Maybe I'm wrong about that but how would you even start calling up potential soldiers if you can't identify who to call? So women would also get their papers, I imagine. This has huge ramifications for society.

But maybe all the pronoun warriors would suddenly find their inner soldier and do what was required of them.

I think you're right though, suddenly there'll be loads more men 'identifying' as a woman.

There are LGBT people fighting on the front line in Ukraine currently - knowing what Russia would have in store for them should they win.

But in the event of a global nuclear war, no one would escape the consequences so using the prospect as an opportunity to stick it to the transes is crass in the extreme, and speaks of an unhealthy obsession.

Isn't the bigger issue about why one sex tends to get conscripted more than the other? (Not every country, Israel for eg. takes a pretty inclusive approach as far as I know)

Is that right/ fair? If you believe in equality presumably you think it's unfair for this distinction to be made?

Oh for goodness sake, @SevenWaystoLeave, we are pondering a whole load of hypotheticals here and not 'stick(ing) it to the transes'. Some potential or actual soldiers have always tried to evade war by feigning flat feet, mental health problems (did you see 'Blackadder goes forth'? 'Mash'?), all sorts. They weren't 'sticking it to the flat of foot' then either.

If people see a way out of something they don't want to do they'll often take it. Declaring the identity of non-combatants could be one of those ways. Do stop being a drama queen.

But in the event of a global nuclear war, no one would escape the consequences so using the prospect as an opportunity to stick it to the transes is crass in the extreme, and speaks of an unhealthy obsession.

But the OP didn't mention nuclear war. Neither is she sticking it to the transes...

Assuming only men get called up (still the case in most countries), a proportion will always try to get out of it through eg fake medical conditions (Donald Trump's bone spurs, anyone?) or taking an exempt job. Legally identifying as a woman would be an easy way out, though perhaps countries would exclude anyone who obtained legal identification after call-up began.

Yes, RoyalCorgi and its a good argument against self-ID if a war is looming.

@RoyalCorgi

But in the event of a global nuclear war, no one would escape the consequences so using the prospect as an opportunity to stick it to the transes is crass in the extreme, and speaks of an unhealthy obsession.

But the OP didn't mention nuclear war. Neither is she sticking it to the transes...

Assuming only men get called up (still the case in most countries), a proportion will always try to get out of it through eg fake medical conditions (Donald Trump's bone spurs, anyone?) or taking an exempt job. Legally identifying as a woman would be an easy way out, though perhaps countries would exclude anyone who obtained legal identification after call-up began.

Do you think it's right for men to face conscription and not women?

These countries may conscript men and women equally now so IDing as a woman might not mean you escape conscription.

However they might not go to any front line. I was involved in Army Recruitment a long time ago and potential recruits who had thyroid problems were rejected with part of the reason being the Army couldn't guarantee the provision of their medicine to front lines in times of war.

So trans identifying soldiers of any gender may simply backfill roles (normally admin roles) in the rear lines allowing fit, healthy and unmedicated soldiers to deploy to the front lines.

Where countries have National Service its usual for men and women to be called up. Israel, which is only a smidgen away from self ID does this. I doubt that if 0.5% of the 51% of women involved can be classed as a 'bigger mass'. Maybe get another hobby

In Israel both men and women have national service.
Plenty of brave women volunteering in Ukraine right now.
Given that self-ID appears imminent in Scotland which is, for now, part of the UK, my observation is relevant.
Understand you may enjoy idle speculation about unlikely scenarios, op, but it is not the issue of avoiding conscription which will wake people up to the problems of self-ID.

Why are you assuming that only men would be conscripted? Some countries (Israel for example) have conscription for both men and women.

I know this isn't about the UK (unless Scotland passes a self-ID law soon), but wouldn't the Equality Act mean that women would also have to be conscripted (or is there an exception in the EA for military service)?

Some countries (Israel for example) have conscription for both men and women.

Any others apart from Israel?

I googled my own question. According to Wikipedia:

Nations that in present-day actively draft women into military service are Bolivia,[73] Chad,[74] Eritrea,[75][76][77] Israel,[75][76][78] Mozambique,[79] Norway,[80] North Korea[81] and Sweden.[82]

@Rightsraptor

Oh for goodness sake, *@SevenWaystoLeave*, we are pondering a whole load of hypotheticals here and not 'stick(ing) it to the transes'. Some potential or actual soldiers have always tried to evade war by feigning flat feet, mental health problems (did you see 'Blackadder goes forth'? 'Mash'?), all sorts. They weren't 'sticking it to the flat of foot' then either.

If people see a way out of something they don't want to do they'll often take it. Declaring the identity of non-combatants could be one of those ways. Do stop being a drama queen.

Very good point well made by Rightsraptor, and in point of fact SevenWaystoLeave it's exactly the basic argument we keep trying to make about prisons, refuges et al and in fact safeguarding across the board - if there is advantage to be gained you will not be able stop some unscrupulous men from exploiting any loophole that presents itself to them.

@bellinisurge, I am aware that there are brave women fighting in Ukraine now. Also the women doing all they can to remove their families from the situation, they're brave, too. All the people of Ukraine are brave because they have to be. And I don't know if National Service is the same as being sent to fight on the front line.
I don't know what my musings have to do with self ID in Scotland, though. I have donated to feminist groups who are trying to stop this and can't worry about it all the time, so pardon me if you think my speculations are idle.
And if we have a nuclear war, the whole planet is fucked.....

Now, now. Don't go insinuating that if there was a war the transwomen should be conscripted along with the men. We all know that, unlike us, THEY are ladies. Someone might break a nail or something.

Besides if you look at the Transwomen Escape Committee threads it appears that some of the appeal of being a transwoman is that you must stop doing "manly" chores but you cannot be expected to do chores that are "for women" as you need to deal with your fragile mental health. Also: all money in the family are now for your use only because you just need it more. it really would be unfair if the children got new school shoes just because the old shoes have holes in them when you need new stilettos to validate you.

Just as an aside, I believe I read in a Corrie ten Boom book many years ago, that in WW2 some young Dutch men used to dress as women to avoid being sent to Germany as slave labour. And why not? It's like women disguising themselves as men in order to fight in wars, when they wouldn't have been able to as women.

So non-trans cross-dressing has its place.

Right, carry on with the real discussion...