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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Good letter to the Times about "trans Vikings"

43 replies

LittleWhingingWoman · 25/02/2022 07:17

"The fact that the woman in Birka was buried with weaponry rather than a pink My Little Pony does not mean she was transgender. It means that she was a woman belonging to a social class from which warriors were selected. Perhaps she became a warrior to avenge her murdered husband and to protect her children’s future.^
Veronica Wikman, Edinburgh"^

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8613255a-90f4-11ec-8038-2fedb801d1cc?shareToken=ad9f3342d44dc9633a5aaf726ebbd5f7

OP posts:
Clymene · 01/03/2022 16:39

@DameHelena

No, I know, just want to be ABSOLUTELY clear!
Grin I can quite understand why
MyLittlePhonyPony · 01/03/2022 16:57

My Little Warrior- Now with blood covered pony accessories.

Good letter to the Times about "trans Vikings"
Greattimestroubledtimes · 01/03/2022 17:07

And underlying it all, the assumption that there is no way at all that a 'warrior' could be a woman and we must try every single way of thinking to avoid this.

because otherwise the idea would emasculate every single one of them.

SunniDelite · 01/03/2022 17:11

@MyLittlePhonyPony :) Someone will be after you to tell you Vikings didn't have horns on their helmets :) Great picture!

MrsGhastlyCrumb · 01/03/2022 17:12

@MyLittlePhonyPony

My Little Warrior- Now with blood covered pony accessories.
Grin

On another note, I googled the fabulous Veronica, and she wote the article below for the Scotsman. Great stuff.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/veronica-wikman-our-creepy-attitude-brothels-1553903

MyLittlePhonyPony · 01/03/2022 17:34

Yes I did worry about perpetrating that particular stereotype.

However, artistic licence won out ;)

FrancescaContini · 01/03/2022 18:00

@MyLittlePhonyPony

My Little Warrior- Now with blood covered pony accessories.
Grin brilliant
MsFogi · 01/03/2022 18:02

I'm so fed up of history being re-written - my oh-so-woke dc2 bangs on and on about how trans people were the founders of the LGB movement, started the stonewall riots, blah, blah blah no LGB people did anything for gay rights, it's all about the T!

FrancescaContini · 01/03/2022 18:04

@MsFogi

I'm so fed up of history being re-written - my oh-so-woke dc2 bangs on and on about how trans people were the founders of the LGB movement, started the stonewall riots, blah, blah blah no LGB people did anything for gay rights, it's all about the T!
Do you correct him/her?
Clymene · 01/03/2022 18:06

@MyLittlePhonyPony

My Little Warrior- Now with blood covered pony accessories.
GrinGrinGrinGrin

Particularly love the expression on the pony's face.

JaninaDuszejko · 01/03/2022 18:08

@Epli

Wait till they discover men in 18th century wore make up, wigs and oftentimes shoes with heels of considerable height.
There is an excellent ^You're Dead to Me* podcast all about heels and they discuss heels being used to demonstrate masculinity/femininity.
MyLittlePhonyPony · 01/03/2022 18:09

I'm glad you enjoyed the expression. It started out as a much more placid #bekind pony but that didn't feel right for fwr.

It's a pony that knows it's boundaries are being breached.

JaninaDuszejko · 01/03/2022 18:13

You need to send your picture to Hasbro, I'd definitely buy all the 9yos I know Viking MLPs Grin

Musomama1 · 01/03/2022 18:14

@Greattimestroubledtimes

And underlying it all, the assumption that there is no way at all that a 'warrior' could be a woman and we must try every single way of thinking to avoid this.

because otherwise the idea would emasculate every single one of them.

I think all the male historians who had been so excited over the discovery of this important warrior man felt rather differently when later it was discovered to be a woman.

Isn't this a more interesting thing to ponder? As has been pointed out, one of the problems with applying gender ideology to the past is that it is anachronistic. People just didn't think in those terms until fairly recently. You'd have thought the academics would know all about that.

Oh didn't know that about Alice Roberts, I watch her programs she seems very sure about female and male anatomy! I read her clownfish twitter post, smacked of an academic posturing theory at the uneducated. They live such cloistered lives.

Funny how some privileged women are happy to pull up the drawbridge on other women once they've achieved success, or overcome their own battles.

DameHelena · 01/03/2022 18:22

Shit, I didn't know that about Alice Roberts and clownfish either. I thought I liked her.

Mama1980 · 01/03/2022 18:27

I am a archaeologist/historian and unfortunately encounter such nonsense all the time. I have written a book relating to Anne lister and the number of times I had to say to people "no she was not trans, she was a woman and very happy to be one, she just wanted to have sex with/was attracted to other women" is ridiculous!
Going back to the Viking sagas they make it clear that women (laegertha for example) both mythical and real fought, but fought as women not pseudo men. They fought in their own right and as themselves.
And yep Alice Roberts is definitely one to avoid.

flygirl1983 · 01/03/2022 18:42

@DameHelena

Shit, I didn't know that about Alice Roberts and clownfish either. I thought I liked her.
I feel the same. I've loved programs she's done in the past. I don't understand how she can "sex" skeletons and them say we can all switch sex.
DameHelena · 01/03/2022 18:57

fly, no, that’s what I really don’t get either 😶

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