Transracial vs transgender

[samsalmon]

Apologies if this has been covered here before.

I watched the Netflix doc The Rachel Divide on Rachel Dolezal. Very glad I did, there is so much more to her story than I realised, eg awful family background allegedly, the adopted siblings and so on. To this day, she is adamant about her identity, despite the fact that she has virtually no support and it has ruined her life.

As background, I am GC but open to all discussing all ideas, not white and have close friends who are trans identifying or have trans identifying kids. The difference, if any, between the concepts of transracial ( for want of a better term) and transgender if very interesting to me and I’m guessing that as the discussion on this is ongoing in the US, it will eventually reach us here.

The main opinion, certainly as expressed on the internet since the whole Rachel Dolezal affair is that transgender is ‘just how we are’ and that being transgender has a genetic component which is only just being discovered, therefore it’s all OK. On the other hand, race is a social construct that we should be rejecting, and identifying into a race is not acceptable (also as those in some races have no way of identifying out of their race).

I do find the whole notion of being born in the wrong body completely offensive and really very problematic, having said that, I do believe in bodily autonomy as a very fundamental principle. I come from a community where the majority of people are really proud to be who they are and we don’t as a group feel particularly held back. However, there are some, including a close family member, who would be tempted to change their race if they could, if there was a pill, they’d take it. I find that horrifying but that’s how they feel.

My brain is fried over this and I’d be glad to hear any thoughts, there are some really knowledgeable people on here. As I say, I think the discussion if headed our way. Alternatively, if this has been covered before, a pointer to the relevant thread would be appreciated! TIA.

Here is the darling child:

www.google.co.uk/search?q=man+identifies+as+a+child&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

IMO Blackness can be separated into skin pigmentation and culture.Pigmentation is physical. Non-blacks can tan but can never naturally be as dark. In regards to culture, there is a range of cultures associated with Blacks; each country in Africa has a distinct culture, as do each Caribbean nation as do Blacks in America and elsewhere.

Dolezal so strongly identifies with Black culture she self-identifies as Black which is my opinion is fine as long as she understands she can't demand citizenship in an African or Caribbean nation or take a position in an organization that has been set aside for Blacks.

The same split applies to sex and gender. If men self-identify as women and want to wear female clothing etc that is fine but they should not have the right to demand access to female spaces or take positions in organizations etc that have been set aside for females.

Wokes would reject my position because they not only believe there is such a thing as cultural appropriation which in their minds is tantamount to a crime against humanity but also believe there is nothing wrong with what amounts to gender appropriation.

This is a blatant contradiction.Another contradiction is that in regards to race, race and culture in their minds are inseparable so someone can't claim to be Black simply because they deeply identify with the culture. Unfortunately for women they do not believe that sex and gender is likewise inseparable so if a male identifies his gender as woman, the reality of sex disappears and he magically transforms completely into that category of existence.

@DontLikeCrumpets thanks for that insight. RD doesn’t say ‘I am black’ she says she self-identifies as black, which you could discuss but obviously she completely overstepped all the boundaries through her activities and allowing other people to actually think she was black. Maybe a better term would be ‘identify with’ rather than ‘self identify as’, if you feel such a strong affiliation? But of course, as you say, that’s not where we are, we’re at TWAW. I’m just trying to get to the nitty gritty of the logic of it, if any.

For myself, race and culture are separable, there are many aspects of the culture I was born into that I reject and I’m glad to have the freedom to do so. But I can never pretend to be white. People see and treat me as what they see until I assert myself. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

@ScrollingLeaves that ‘child’ is next level nuts. I keep thinking that cases like that will make everyone think more logically but until now, they’ve been dismissed as cranks or chancers, while TI folk are all authentic and sincere, no questions asked.

My kids are mixed race (white and my ethnicity). One of them said once that he would like to be white in U.K. and my ethnicity in my home country. I was surprised that there was an Olympic medalist that also expressed these sentiments (not intending for surgery or anything, just discussing identity) - perhaps there is a desire to fit in? I told my son that it wasn’t possible to change and it’s important for him to know for medical reasons (can affect probability of disease etc - and affect diagnosis). He’s fine - it was just a passing thought, but I would like him to grow up to be happy with himself - not wishing to be taller or whiter or whatever.

Also, just because something has a genetic component doesn’t mean we should follow 1 course or another. Some psychiatric conditions like depression, some types of dementia, schizophrenia have a genetic component.

It wasn’t that long ago that a 69-year-old man brought a legal case to be recognised officially as a 49-year-old. He thought it would help him get better jobs and also improve his chances on Tinder if he magically became 49. He specifically quoted the example of being transgender as part of his reason for doing it.

He lost the case.

I've read elsewhere that said he didn’t think it ought to be allowed the other way - so you couldn’t claim to be 20 years older and claim your pension early. Why not, though, if you’re going to spout this sort of nonsense?

Clearly the whole thing is cut from the same cloth. As you say, OP... Well indeed because if transgender is ok, why not trans anything?

@AlexaShutUp

I also see no difference in the two concepts, and I have yet to see anyone successfully argue why people should be able to identify as any gender but not as any race. It seems to me that, logically, you have to accept both or neither.

Yes, this is how I see it too.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]Here is the darling child:

www.google.co.uk/search?q=man+identifies+as+a+child&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari[/quote]
OMFG
Grotesque 🤮

Just to add, about the 69-year-old trans-ager, he 'felt' young. His doctor had told him he had the physique of a much younger man. Hmmm, those 'feelings' again.

But the judge wasn’t having it. One of the judges wanted to know what would become of the 20 years that Mr Ratelband wanted to erase. "Who were your parents looking after then? Who was that little boy?" he was quoted as saying.

Indeed. The past matters. What a surprise that we can’t just erase the person we were, and indeed still are.