We might all have some male cells inside us?!

[Gosports]

I just came across this article that suggests just that. Our chromosomal makeup might be more complex than we assume. I had no idea. I thought every cell in my body was female.

I’m 100% GC and fully believe Robert Winston when he says we can’t change sex, but maybe the debate is a bit more nuanced than I first thought. Anyone with a more scientific background than me (ie, none) have any thoughts?

www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

If you have a penis at birth you are male.

You ain't never giving birth, and you ain't ever going to impregnate someone unless they are a woman.

Sex is not a spectrum.

Biological details are absolutely fascinating but until a person produces a spegg, we only have two sexes.

@anothersmahedmug

The sporting difference is directly related to sex , age of puberty and affect of hormones

Young girls and boys don't show the difference

Define young? I think young boys and girls do show a difference, but very young boys and girls don;t. It is not all about puberty.

@ScreamingMeMe who is Jan?

I assume that was said in sarcastic tones, insinuating I wasn’t being genuine.

Sometimes when I read posts on mumsnet I do wonder why I am so fully supportive of my own sex when we are often rude and bitchy towards one another.

This reads a lot like Intelligent Design, an attempt to put science around a religious idea.

Sure, Jan.

I realise how bloody frustrating it is having poppers regularly post disingenuous OP's but if you are going to accuse someone it's smart to look at their posting history first.

I suppose gosports could be a secret Genderist playing a very long game but presumably, in that case, would not post an article which doesn't help their case at all.

That article was written by Claire Ainsworth. She was asked on Twitter "In your piece 'Sex Redefined' are you making the claim there are more than 2 sexes?" Her response was

"No, not at all. Two sexes, with a continuum of variation in anatomy/physiology."

twitter.com/ClaireAinsworth/status/888365994577735680

Different skeletons, muscle amounts and types, hormone levels, blood and loads more.
I think the point PP was making is that the lady brain myth is nonsense.

Yes, I saw that. If we rephrase it as "There is no evidence that female and males are fundamentally different beyond primary and secondary sex characteristics" then it would be true, but trivially true. Because it's the differences between these characteristics which define the two sexes. So it's actually tautologous.

Yes exactly. Sex hormones, particularly androgenisation affect humans quite profoundly. Embryos start off as sexually undifferentiated. Primary and and secondary characteristics, skin, hair, muscles, cartilage, bones, hearts, lungs, faces… the entire body is affected by sex hormones right through the life course. The idea that the brain wouldn’t be affected at all these stages by different sex hormones seems implausible. Developmentally and permanently.

To a large extent sexual behaviour is driven by neural pathways in the brain and they develop differently under the influence of sex hormones. The entire body is differentiated by these hormones so why wouldn’t that include the brain? I’m not saying that’s all we are. But equally that doesn’t mean it has to be dismissed by reductio ad absurdum to ‘lady brain’.

If there was a, I dunno, 98% correlation of brain type to sex (as in, two distinct brain types with only a tiny overlap), that would suggest that there are boy-brains and girl-brains.

There isn't, though.

Still doesn’t make sense. There’s boy and girl everything else in the body. Why not brains?

And what do you mean by brain types? There’s sexual behaviour and that correlates extremely highly with sex.

Every Woman who has ever been pregnant with a Male child will have bits of Male DNA in her body. It’s fascinating.

Still doesn’t make sense. There’s boy and girl everything else in the body. Why not brains?

Because the evidence says there isn't (same as many other organs). It's not that sex has no effect just that the average differences between sexes are minor and the variation between individual brains is wide.

As I understand it, the research shows that there are characteristics skewed towards one sex or the other (eg. Spatial awareness) but that there is no evidence that these are exclusively one sex or the other (so if a woman has good spatial awareness it doesn't mean she is a bloke!) and that there is no way of telling whether a brain is male or female just from studying it alone because there are no exclusive characteristics. On top of this, we should also remember that brains are plastic and are shaped from birth usually with social stereotypes heavily influencing, so that is going to be a big factor as well.

Conversely, the presence of a penis on a human body is exclusively male, and anyone can (and they do every day!) tell whether someone is male or female from looking at whether they have a penis or not. Social stereotypes have no influence on how that penis develops either (although some men would love for that to be possible I'm sure!)

As I understand it, the research shows that there are characteristics skewed towards one sex or the other (eg. Spatial awareness) but that there is no evidence that these are exclusively one sex or the other

I was talking about brain physiology but on personality most of the traits once thought to be male/female are cultural (e.g. the spacial awareness gap disappears where women have equal opportunity to develop it).

IIRC the only ones consistent across all groups of women are: higher ability to read non-verbal communication and greater empathy.

@donquixotedelamancha

Sure, Jan.

I realise how bloody frustrating it is having poppers regularly post disingenuous OP's but if you are going to accuse someone it's smart to look at their posting history first.

I suppose gosports could be a secret Genderist playing a very long game but presumably, in that case, would not post an article which doesn't help their case at all.

This article has been used by TRAs as a gotcha since it was first published in 2017 (hence why that person asked Claire Ainsworth for clarification), so I'm sorry that my first instinct was "Ffs not this again!".

For anyone interested in this area, Gina Rippon, "the gendered brain," is a great read.

Also want to point out we are partly made up of bacteria so have a fuck of a lot of bacterial dna in us.

And studies show that gut bacteria really do affect the brain 🧠 🦠

But we ain't bacteria.,

We ain't bananas 🍌🍌either and we share about 60% of our dna with them.

This article is often raised as done kind of gotcha by those who want you to think that sex is kinda complicated. It's not - this is the authors response when challenged. There are two human sexes.

The idea that the brain wouldn’t be affected at all these stages by different sex hormones seems implausible. Developmentally and permanently.

And still not a reason to allow people born with penises to forcibly remove the rights and have free access to the spaces and physical presence of non consenting people born with vaginas.

Which is still all this is about. That's it. That's the whole point of dancing words endlessly through the salad spinner. It boils down to a bottom line of 'can we trample female rights yet and use them as the male owned resources we see them as'?

This article has been used by TRAs as a gotcha since it was first published in 2017, so I'm sorry that my first instinct was "Ffs not this again!".

Yeah, I completely understand, I have done the same thing myself on occasion.