Great Speccie article on bringing your whole self to work

[SirSamVimesCityWatch]

www.spectator.co.uk/article/work-is-no-place-for-your-whole-self-

By the Madness of Crowds author Douglas Murray. Basic idea - how about just bringing the bit of yourself that's good at your job to work?

It's light-hearted but a good read. I don't think anyone should have to hide their sexuality at work, for example, but I don't think anyone needs to actively display every aspect of their personal life / interests / problems / the fact they cross dress at weekends, etc etc, at work either. I think the blurring of work and home life is actually bad for us - makes it harder to separate work from home and, with the introduction of WFH for a lot of people, ends up with you giving up more time to work.

And I loved his ‘YouTuber Owen Jones’ story.

@NecessaryScene

But still, I think it's fairly widely understood that 'a gay' is not a great phrase to use.

But why not? He's doing it very thoughtfully. There's a gap in the language - "a lesbian" is in common use, but "a gay" isn't. Making "gay" as a noun acceptable increases expressiveness. Nouns are useful.

Having read his book, he's clearly on a "simplifying English" thing throughout, with a side order of "let's play the Woke language warriors at their own game".

At least he's not telling people off for not saying "a gay", he's just leading by example.

(And at least it means something, unlike the accursed "queer".)

No, it's not a 'gap in the language'. He's being deliberately provocative. Which is his stock-in-trade.

Anyway, I've derailed enough from the actual thread topic.

I wonder if being a grumpy menopausal woman who regularly has little sleep, has breakout bleeding to mimic post birth, is irritated by mediocre middle aged mid management he-himmers and frequently gets the rage by the women hating bull that the wokesters promote?

Yes? Is that 'self' welcome at the Team Meeting?

I've never thought about it before but you're right, it is a language gap. A gay sounds very harsh to me, an insult, whereas a lesbian is simply a statement of fact.

If DM is gay and wants to reclaim 'a gay' as a legitimate phrase then who am I to say no? I definitely appreciate the fact it has an actual meaning, unlike "queer" which now seems to basically mean "I'm super special and definitely not a boring straight person even though I have only ever had heterosexual relationships and also I have blue hair so I must be cool".

I think he's brilliant.
Intellectually and also courageous.

He is not prepared to dilute what he sees as dangerous or absurd the spare anyone's feelings.

And that is needed.

If we were at a point in our culture where feelings were always disregarded in pursuit of truth we'd probably need some one else commenting to rebalance that.

But we're not, so we need Murray.

And the proclamations on here of the 'unacceptability of 'a gay' vs gay and 'The' Ukraine vs Ukraine are just glorious examples of the absurd spiralling looking for offence, he pillories in his writing.

And the proclamations on here of the 'unacceptability of 'a gay' vs gay and 'The' Ukraine vs Ukraine are just glorious examples of the absurd spiralling looking for offence, he pillories in his writing.
'gay' I CBA talking about any more. I've made my view clear.
But Ukraine itself made clear (some years ago) why it wants to be called that. Doing otherwise, or saying that it's just looking for offence, is just ill-informed. Or wilfully ignorant.

Ha! You persist in your righteous indignation 😁

I'm sure The Ukraine is very glad to have you gallantly defending it at this time.

@MalagaNights

Ha! You persist in your righteous indignation 😁

I'm sure The Ukraine is very glad to have you gallantly defending it at this time.

Sorry but I don't see how it's righteous indignation It's quite basic general knowledge that that's how the country is referred to and why. It's like saying 'That's so funny how you insist that it's Zimbabwe and not Rhodesia ha ha, you're just looking for offence.'

But you know, crack on.

I don't want to know anything about my colleagues unless they are specific friends of mine, I'm not interested and I don't care.
I have a "naice" work persona and a wild out of work persona and never shall the two meet.

Of course "bring your whole self to work" is worse for women than for men.

A man gets married and it's relatively unremarkable, a woman gets married and her seniors start wondering when she's going to be off on maternity leave.

A man with kids is a provider, a woman with kids is expected to be unreliable etc etc.

I get it, but at the same time, there is no equivalent of the word "the" in Russian, so I don't quite understand where that bit of reasoning came from.

@MalagaNights

I think he's brilliant. Intellectually and also courageous.

He is not prepared to dilute what he sees as dangerous or absurd the spare anyone's feelings.

And that is needed.

If we were at a point in our culture where feelings were always disregarded in pursuit of truth we'd probably need some one else commenting to rebalance that.

But we're not, so we need Murray.

And the proclamations on here of the 'unacceptability of 'a gay' vs gay and 'The' Ukraine vs Ukraine are just glorious examples of the absurd spiralling looking for offence, he pillories in his writing.

Agree with all of this, particularly the last paragraph.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

I don't want to know anything about my colleagues unless they are specific friends of mine, I'm not interested and I don't care. I have a "naice" work persona and a wild out of work persona and never shall the two meet.

Same here.

When I hear 'bringing your whole self to work' I think of that terrible advert (is it for LinkedIn?) where the woman says ‘ I want to bring ALL my identities to work', and then they show a bloke in a catsuit and platform shoes squatting self-importantly on a table.

No. Just no. Come to work, do your job properly, be polite, go home. That’s all you need to do.

@Zeugma

When I hear 'bringing your whole self to work' I think of that terrible advert (is it for LinkedIn?) where the woman says ‘ I want to bring ALL my identities to work', and then they show a bloke in a catsuit and platform shoes squatting self-importantly on a table.

No. Just no. Come to work, do your job properly, be polite, go home. That’s all you need to do.

I completely agree. Just bring your professional self to work please.

I am alarmed at the push for 'professional' to include 'identity' when that includes sexuality, kinks, god knows what else.

Inclusion has gone too far.

That bloke at NSPCC (I think) brought his whole self to work didn't he? Took pics too.

Only my professional self needs to be at work and I don't need to know about others' whole selves at work either. It's bad enough already hearing people talking endlessly about their children/grand children, how rat arsed they got over the weekend , their hobbies etc without talking about their kinks and fetishes because that's where we would end up with this.

At a time when Ukraine is being invaded, yes it does seem like respect rather than self-righteousness to use the name they have officially said is the right one. There are just not two different equally acceptable versions of the name.

If I brought my whole self to work, it would have to include declarations of my mum being from Ukraine. Russian being her first language would complicate the whole self presentation even further.

I don't share much political space with Douglas Murray. My whole self might deploy a term to describe him that caused offence. However, that doesn't mean that everything he says is disagreeable to me.

Summary of thread...

Madness of crowds author: Not woke.

People: Should be free to wear rubber fetish suits to piss and wank into, at work.
(But only the woke ones.
Otherwise they'd be scolded)

Got it.

@Sexnotgender

My whole self likes eating Crisps and drinking wine. Looking forward to doing that at my desk.

@Sexnotgender are you me!?

Definitely think I should get to bring that part of myself to work. Also the part of myself that likes to be in no bra and PJs at 4PM

@IntermittentParps

I find his turn of phrase offensive ('if you are a gay') and he's, generally speaking, a cunt. The Madness of Crowds is an appalling book IMO.

There is absolutely some wisdom in not bringing your whole self to work and I agree what with everyone on here is saying. I just don't want to hear it from him, expressed in such terms.

I think it's pretty offensive for someone to decide that a gay man can't use that term, (unless of course you are also a gay man, in which case you and Douglas Murray can fight it out between you)

Some countries have 'the' in front of their name because they are/were historically a collection of states. So the UK, the US. Some are a group of islands, such as the Philippines. The only reason I've ever heard for 'the' in front of other countries' names is one of possession, as when some used to refer to the Argentine or the Ukraine. Who was doing the possessing I have no idea. No idea either where the Netherlands fits in to this.

@Namechangeforthis88

I get it, but at the same time, there is no equivalent of the word "the" in Russian, so I don't quite understand where that bit of reasoning came from.

I am fascinated to know how that works - do they say "Put cup of tea on table, please"? I once helped an Estonian with proofreading something, and they don't use a different word for him/her (and also don't have 'a'/'the' but they certainly never got that wrong when speaking English). Am I right in thinking Russian doesn't distinguish between him and her also?

So the people in Ukraine can determine not to be called The Ukraine and we must follow that. But it is offensive for a gay man to call himself 'a gay'. Only people IntermittentParps agrees with are allowed self determine it seems. And the IntermittentParps dismisses Murray because they were offended whilst being purposefully offensive towards him. I presume that means we now ignore IntermittentParps? Or is that like self'determination and only allowed by the woke?

There is no way I would risk disclosing my real domestic situation at work. They are public sector and actively promote inclusion etc but are sadly still under the Stonewall yoke. So I am convinced that if they found out I am a transwidow I would face disapproval and discrimination. On the other hand my husband would be feted as stunning and brave and be given an active leg up.

Employers should never be trusted with the intimate details of your life. They will always find a way to use it against you.