Pronouns at work - help

[HermioneKipper]

We’ve been asked to put our pronouns on our signatures at work. Lots have already done this, has been suggested in team meetings etc but I have studiously ignored it so far.

We’ve now been officially told to do it.

Employer is a stonewall champion and very pro this sort of thing. I’m very anxious about speaking out but will refuse on principle to do it. I do not subscribe to gender ideology and disagree with needing a pronoun. Worried if I say this I will get into trouble.

How can I put it without getting a black mark against my name?

I tried to spend a week (lasted two days) noting situations when I might use pronouns about other people. It was overwhelmingly when they were not present (and I can't say I care how someone might mention me in those cases). In the presence of others, it seemed cold to refer to a third person IN the third person.

I've only been faced with a badge that had a pronouns space at the bottom. I put Protected / Characteristic.

Saying you have to put pronouns is discriminatory against people with gender critical beliefs. There are other negatives, such as stereotype threat, outing people who aren’t ready, privacy, GDPR. But at it’s basic level, this is a discriminatory act on their part.

"It's not a practice I follow."

Sex Matters have a Pronouns at Work guide you can download on their website, and that's where I got the above brilliant line from.

I would not try and be clever with the Yogakarta Principles or pretend I was still mulling over my gender identity, because that all lends credence to the whole thing. They won't get it. They will just think you actually take it seriously.

What I did when this first came up at work (an intranet post by our resident social justice warrior), I brought it up with my manager in our one-to-one, and said I wasn't a fan, wasn't planning on doing it, and I hoped that was not a problem with her. She said she also didn't like it (though it was clear she'd never really given it much thought either), and we certainly didn't have to.

Interestingly, there was an increase in pronouns in signatures until (mysteriously) people dropped them, one by one. We have to change our signatures every few weeks and people just didn't put pronouns in their new ones. Even the email signature guidance changed, having briefly mentioned pronouns. I don't know whether something happened to change their minds, or whether they just felt a bit silly.

I would not try and be clever with the Yogakarta Principles
Why 'clever'? They are a simple and universal human-rights principle.

(Sorry OP - I realise your situation is different because you've been ordered to do it.)

I would not try and be clever with the Yogakarta Principles or pretend I was still mulling over my gender identity, because that all lends credence to the whole thing. They won't get it. They will just think you actually take it seriously.

This is a good point. Personally I would just do nothing. If they really started making an issue about you not doing it (as opposed to merely sending round robin emails imploring all employees to be more 'inclusive'), I'd bring up the email signature swap story: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/what-happened-when-a-man-signed-work-emails-using-a-female-name-for-a-week_n_58c2ce53e4b054a0ea6a4066

There have other threads on this if you have a search. Suggestions include:

• just state you won't be doing it without explaining
• stereotype threat for women
• not wishing to announce (or underline with emphasis) your sex to ppl you communicated with. Especially if this makes you think it will open you up to sex discrimination, eg if it's a sexist male dominated industry.

I think this whole pronoun thing is a nonsense. Is there a list of acceptable pronouns, do we all have to learn neo pronouns and if so is the employer willing to pay me for the time taken to do this? Also how often is it acceptable to change them, daily, weekly, monthly? How much longer will it take me to double check that every report I write has the correct pronoun for each individual? Will I get paid for this extra work? What are the consequences of any mistakes? Was I employed on the basis that I am a woman (highly unlikely considering discrimination laws), if so why is it important that I make a declaration on my email. If people want to do it let them but forcing people to do it - no thank you!

Working for a large corp, I have a noticed that the he-himmer notifications have disappeared from some who I know to be gay and increased in married het men with children.

Go figure.

@IntermittentParps

I would not try and be clever with the Yogakarta Principles Why 'clever'? They are a simple and universal human-rights principle.

I've not read them, but I was under the impression that they were a lot of nonsense that virtually nobody has ever heard of. Not something I'd want to give oxygen to.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

There seem to be a flurry of these threads recently, I wonder if Stonewall have been putting extra pressure on the "champions" in their protection racket.

Blimey, I really hope not. My employer is a Stonewall champion, but haven't brought this up yet. Having suffered from sex-based discrimination throughout my (non-gender-conforming) career, this is a hill I'm willing to die on. My employer is pretty good though, so I really hope it doesn't come to that.

HelloCrocus, a pp quotes Principle 6 - The Right to Privacy above. Is that 'a lot of nonsense'?

I would ignore until someone speaks to you about it. Then, depending on how brave/secure you’re feeling you can go from the mild “I don’t feel comfortable” without specifying why, through to its discrimination against those who don’t have a gender identity/hold GV beliefs

@HermioneWeasley

I would ignore until someone speaks to you about it. Then, depending on how brave/secure you’re feeling you can go from the mild “I don’t feel comfortable” without specifying why, through to its discrimination against those who don’t have a gender identity/hold GV beliefs

I agree with this approach. If asked "I don't want to" should suffice. If pushed "I disagree with the premise". If pushed further "this is a discussion I'm not prepared to have at work, I will treat every individual with respect of course" repeat ad nauseum

@KittenKong

I can’t wait for this guff to blow over and people to wake up.

Ha, yes me too! I was heartened today to hear a group of young teenage girls on the bus scoffing and generally eye rolling about the idea of non binary people.

OP, this is a good resource womansplaceuk.org/2021/06/27/share-pronouns-at-work/

I'm with @ConfusingWorld and this is the approach i've taken with my company (we are not at the compulsory pronoun stage)
It helps here because we have an initiative within the company to improve the ratio of women in the higher echelons having discovered that 65% of the company are women, but only 15% of partners. This has played into my hand, somewhat.

We'll see what happens if they decide to make it compulsory. I rather suspect it will be the hill i die on.

Ha, yes me too! I was heartened today to hear a group of young teenage girls on the bus scoffing and generally eye rolling about the idea of non binary people.

Ah, now I've got a bit of a soft spot for non binary - it's gender critical with a flag.

Employees can say what they want (within reason) on their personal email or social media, but not at work. If flying flags or distributing leaflets or making people say how they vote at work is too political, I don’t see why putting pronouns on work emails is any different. Employers can’t force anyone to do it.
I also think adding pronouns by choice which some of my colleagues seem to be allowed to do, isn't OK. Nobody wants to tackle it even though we have a Style Guide and it specifies exactly what our email signatures have to look like

@GroggyLegs

Ha, yes me too! I was heartened today to hear a group of young teenage girls on the bus scoffing and generally eye rolling about the idea of non binary people.

Ah, now I've got a bit of a soft spot for non binary - it's gender critical with a flag.

It's the first step to tervedom

non binary - it's gender critical with a flag.

I don't see it that way. I think that not fitting neatly into a gender stereotype box isn't non-binary - it's just human. Calling yourself non-binary says that you think everyone else fits in gender boxes.

Yes indeed, for anyone to be non binary they need to rigidly enforce the binary on most other people, otherwise there is nothing to be 'non'

I once calmly explained to a crack pot TRA that all GC feminists are non binary on the barbie to GI Joe scale. Funnily enough his 'acceptance without exception' creed stopped short at a boring 40 year old mother self IDing

I actually think it’s ridiculous everyone is pussy-footing around this. It’s already been made clear employers are not able to force this. It’s in law. If women stopped trying to be so meek and nice then maybe we would actually get somewhere.

Be honest. You don’t agree with gender ideology and you’d like to know why your boss thinks this is emptily appropriate in the work place.

Rinse and repeat.

*-emptily

(Though it made me laugh!)

Nhs want us to do the same. Also encouraging to wear a badge. I hate badges as forget to take them off and they hang funny. Why do I need a badge or email signature to 'prove' I am completed cool with what ever anyone else wants to be called or known as. This from the nhs makes me laugh....

"If you see someone wearing a rainbow badge
If you see one of our staff wearing a rainbow badge, they have made an informed choice to do so. This means you can be sure they are a friendly ear, willing to listen without judgment and will know how to signpost to the support available. So please don’t be afraid to talk to them"
What if someone forgets to wear their badge? Or chooses not to? Are they an unfriendly nasty judgemental bastard? The world has gone mad.