Recourse for being banned from a help group for stating sex is real

[lifeturnsonadime]

I'm posting this thread because this has now happened to me. I don't think there is any recourse but just want to check with people who know.

A group set up to support parents whose children need alternative provision at school because of SEN or other reasons posted an advert for a TRA webinar.

I expressed concerns that this was not in the ethos of the group as it is a political position which removes the rights of female children and women.

I was then immediately removed from this support group, and have subsequently found I am not the only person for being 'transphobic and a terf'.

The founder has a male child who trans identifies.

This is a really key group for support in an area which impacts families with children who may be disabled. I think it's dreadful to be 'removed' for having completely lawful (Forstarter) views.

Is there any recourse?

I doubt there is any legal recourse. can you set up your own group? recruit the others who have been forced out too.

I'm pretty sure voluntary organisations have to abide by The Equality Act, as they provide a service. So technically you should have legal recourse, but it seems to be expensive.
I wonder if you could get together with the others and fund a solicitors letter pointing out the parts of the EA covering victimisation and harassment.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85028/vcs-service-providers.pdf

26 Harassment
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26

27 Victimisation
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/27

Does this group have any "official" standing eg a charity?

Is this a real life group or a FB one? Was it the founder who said about the webinar? I'm not sure of any recourse, has there been a tangible loss to you? Even having a view / belief / fact doesn't mean a group has to include you. I guess it would be similar to a vegan joining a Sunday Roast group and accusing all the meat eaters of being animal haters.

It's a harder situation because of the founder's child, so it has been taken personally.

In terms of the vegan analogy, I mean that has been recognised as a valid belief, so whilst one can state something, it doesn't mean the group has to allow that person a platform.

You can't be sacked for the viewpoint, but thrown out of a group, surely there is no stopping that. Be careful as these things work both ways.

I guess it would be similar to a vegan joining a Sunday Roast group and accusing all the meat eaters of being animal haters.

That anology doesnt work. Its like a vegan joining a vegan group and being thrown out for not agreeing that the earth is flat.

There needs to be discussion on these issues and a tra webinar is facilitating discussion. You don't have to go, or you could go and express concerns if you have any.
Especially if the founder has a trans child, they is probably trying to learn more about it and gain support from the group, which seems natural and fair. There are also intersections between trans identity and autism which seem relevant to a SEN group. Maybe consider trying to add to the discussion rather than shutting other people down?

It is a facebook group but where I think it crosses a line is that it sells services to families who require support for things that have nothing to do with gender ideology.

The founder sells webinars about a very specific form of education which applies to children who can't access education. The founder is a lawyer and this facebook group more or less operates as a commercial enterprise with the business of supporting families in a very specific legal position vis a vis education and local authorities.

How is that different to running any other commercial service which refuses access to people based on different political and/ or religious views?

To be clear the specific advice has nothing to do with gender issues. They just choose not to offer 'the service' to women who believe in sex.

@Doona

There needs to be discussion on these issues and a tra webinar is facilitating discussion. You don't have to go, or you could go and express concerns if you have any. Especially if the founder has a trans child, they is probably trying to learn more about it and gain support from the group, which seems natural and fair. There are also intersections between trans identity and autism which seem relevant to a SEN group. Maybe consider trying to add to the discussion rather than shutting other people down?

I'm the mother of an autistic daughter who is concerned about the impact of gender ideology on autistic girls. My views are genuine and valid.

I was trying to add to the discussion by giving a differing viewpoint.

Of course your views are valid! It sounded from the OP that you wanted the founder to take down the ad for the webinar, though. Which comes across as wanting to shut down discussion.

I mean, I think we all have concerns about gender ideology, don't we?

I am in a group with a similar kind of set up, the founder has set up a support group but with a vested commercial interest as well to it. Any support has to be along their opinion and therefore what they commercially promote. Posts will get deleted if they are not toeing the party line.

A slightly different scenario to the OP, but once there is an over personal investment as well as a commercial one then discussion is stifled. These support groups can become less about that and more about the product.

The add wasn't relevant to the purpose of the group.

The add made it clear that 'gender critical views' should be treated as 'wrong'.

The add is hostile to sex being a protected characteristic which is it at law. This was why I felt it was inappropriate in a support group for children requiring alternative provision.

I stated why I felt it was problematic, being the mother of an autistic girl and was immediately removed from the group.

Mum here to two autistic daughters I am fed up of people staring that there is a positive relationship between autism and how your daughter identifies. This is not supported. It seems that some autistic girls are more susceptible to gender identity ideology, but that does not mean if you are autistic you will be trans. It is a scandal that there is no research into this. Tony Attwood gas spoken out to say enabling transition dies not cure autism.

I'm also in a few parent groups and SEN groups on Facebook and it is frustrating how much time gender identity ideology takes up in disussions. It is very hard to raise questions as you are immediately labelled transphobic. I think there are so many parents now who have enabled their daughters via social transitioning that they can't bear to hear anything that goes against their belief. Ive been close to leaving groups and I'm sure many of the other users have blocked me. It's like they are going round with their fingers in their ears going la la la la.
If they think you have broken the rules of the Facebook group then you don't have much recourse. I hope you managed to get names of those who you connected with before your expulsion.

@Whitefire

I am in a group with a similar kind of set up, the founder has set up a support group but with a vested commercial interest as well to it. Any support has to be along their opinion and therefore what they commercially promote. Posts will get deleted if they are not toeing the party line.

A slightly different scenario to the OP, but once there is an over personal investment as well as a commercial one then discussion is stifled. These support groups can become less about that and more about the product.

exactly that. The issue for me is that the product is unique and desperately needed by families whose children can't access education. That this is denied to families who believe sex is real might actually really harm some children because their parents believe sex is real.

This feels grossly unfair.

If I were not very busy with dealing with children with additional needs and caring responsilities for adult family members I'd be tempted to try to run an alternative service which includes all families with children who need to access it.

I can't quite get my head around how it is possible to deny children access to information to help them to be educated based on the beliefs of their parents.

Ahh now with that update I can see it was problematic and sounds like it was inappropriate. I think she can still chuck you out though for no other reason then she doesn't like your opinion. (Not saying it is right btw)

From the Equality Act:
29Provision of services, etc.
(1)A person (a “service-provider”) concerned with the provision of a service to the public or a section of the public (for payment or not) must not discriminate against a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service.
(2)A service-provider (A) must not, in providing the service, discriminate against a person (B)—
(a)as to the terms on which A provides the service to B;
(b)by terminating the provision of the service to B;
(c)by subjecting B to any other detriment.

You'd have to argue discrimination on the basis of your beliefs.

@FemaleAndLearning

Mum here to two autistic daughters I am fed up of people staring that there is a positive relationship between autism and how your daughter identifies. This is not supported. It seems that some autistic girls are more susceptible to gender identity ideology, but that does not mean if you are autistic you will be trans. It is a scandal that there is no research into this. Tony Attwood gas spoken out to say enabling transition dies not cure autism.

I'm also in a few parent groups and SEN groups on Facebook and it is frustrating how much time gender identity ideology takes up in disussions. It is very hard to raise questions as you are immediately labelled transphobic. I think there are so many parents now who have enabled their daughters via social transitioning that they can't bear to hear anything that goes against their belief. Ive been close to leaving groups and I'm sure many of the other users have blocked me. It's like they are going round with their fingers in their ears going la la la la.
If they think you have broken the rules of the Facebook group then you don't have much recourse. I hope you managed to get names of those who you connected with before your expulsion.

I'm not upset on a personal or a social level. It is the idea that families who need support are denied it because they think sex is real that bothers me greatly.

It's hard being the mum of autistic girls right now. Tony attwood has spoken out about it. Autistic girls don't conform to societal norms (mostly) and often have sensory issues. This doesn't mean that that they are non-girls. It's disgusting.

I can't quite get my head around how it is possible to deny children access to information to help them to be educated based on the beliefs of their parents.

Yeah that is really shit, and says more about them. I'm not sure possible is the right word though, more why on earth would someone do that. Why is it that this particular belief has to align otherwise it is immediate exclusion?

It seems that some autistic girls are more susceptible to gender identity ideology, but that does not mean if you are autistic you will be trans.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply this. I only meant that gender identity is a big thing among the kids these days, and that there could be specific issues to discuss about navigating it for parents of kids with autism.

@Swear

From the Equality Act: 29Provision of services, etc. (1)A person (a “service-provider”) concerned with the provision of a service to the public or a section of the public (for payment or not) must not discriminate against a person requiring the service by not providing the person with the service. (2)A service-provider (A) must not, in providing the service, discriminate against a person (B)— (a)as to the terms on which A provides the service to B; (b)by terminating the provision of the service to B; (c)by subjecting B to any other detriment.

You'd have to argue discrimination on the basis of your beliefs.

Thank you.

I think that whilst it is a facebook group the 'paid for' services it supplies might bring it within this.

Very helpful

I think proving a FB group was a provider would be a tall order (as well as a massive can of worms) If the OP was prevented from accessing the commercial aspects, then that may be different as that could be seen as a service.

Twitter as a platform excluding people based on beliefs is more likely to reach that bar than a sub group within it. (Rubbish example I know)

X-posted there.

@Whitefire

I can't quite get my head around how it is possible to deny children access to information to help them to be educated based on the beliefs of their parents.

Yeah that is really shit, and says more about them. I'm not sure possible is the right word though, more why on earth would someone do that. Why is it that this particular belief has to align otherwise it is immediate exclusion?

I don't know.

I got a strong sense that it was an unwillingness to answer questions, and her child trans identifies.

It was the first time I've experienced 'no debate' in the real world. It really upsets me as there was no care of the impact of the ban from the group on a child who needs support.