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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender ideology and safeguarding.

41 replies

MoetLove · 13/02/2022 12:35

Name changed as potentially outing.

I’ve noticed more and more the glaring safeguarding red flags surrounding gender ideology, and despite being generally supportive towards people living their lives as they wish, free from discrimination, I’m increasingly seeing it as a big excuse to behave in a challenging way and no one can question it.

I personally know two trans people - a ftm 13 year old and a late 40s mtf.

The child is in secondary school, has autistic traits which have been ignored, shows signs of hyper sexuality - talks about sex all the time, talks about the many people she’s had sex with, displays odd sexual behaviour around other children - all things that should alert adults if possible abuse.
Several adults, including family members, have reported to the parents and to school that they have concerns, one person talked to her police husband about it to ask what should be done. Responses are resoundingly “you’re transphobic to consider this”. It’s being seen by all as a queer youth expressing “himself” and therefore not an issue.

Second case - late 40s male, I worked with him for several years, no longer work there but am in touch with her and several other past colleagues.
She transitioned 18 months ago, no hormones or surgery yet - although I suppose this could have been done without anyone knowing, but no one has seen any physical changes in her.
The office is informal, 20 people, 13 men 7 women. Loos have always been unisex and no one has had problems until colleague transitioned.
Up until transitioning Jane (not real name) was efficient, a hugely valued member of the team, was friendly and immersed into the friendship group that developed, to the point where we’d holiday together, his wife and children became great friends with me and my children.
Once transitioning started, (I no longer worked there) which was basically wearing revealing outfits, lots of makeup, everyone was very supportive of their friend and fell over backwards to see him as a woman and be supportive. His wife tried, but the relationship ended within 6 months, and she (my male ex colleague) no longer sees her children, it was all very distressing all round.

The colleague now does very little work, makes jokes about her silly lady brain, cries if anything goes wrong or if anyone questions whether she’s finished any tasks.
This is annoying many at work, but in general they, particularly the men, are being very supportive still.
The loo situation was never an issue, but now Jane makes a point of following female colleagues into the loo, asking if they have tampons, trying to engage in talk about their sex lives, suggesting girls nights out, sleepovers, and making them feel very uncomfortable in a way that never happened before. This has been reported but the men don’t see the problem (I think they think the loos are an informal hub for girly chats, which was never the case) so it relies on individuals pointing out to Jane that she’s making them feel uncomfortable, which leads to tears and division in the office.

In both these cases, the only trans people I personally know, there are huge red flags, but the majority of people around think it’s all fine, and that those who take issue are doing so to be transphobic.

I don’t understand why so many intelligent adults are overlooking obviously signs that should be investigated, and instead just applying a blanket “they’re trans” which renders them untouchable, and in the child’s case makes them beyond needing therapy despite the many concerning behaviours that are obvious to anyone who meets them.

How have we got to this point? How do we turn it around when the majority are so sold?

OP posts:
RinklyRomaine · 15/02/2022 07:04

This post is also yet another good example of why preferred pronouns are such a crock, and such a deliberately manipulative tool:

relies on individuals pointing out to Jane that she’s making them feel uncomfortable, which leads to tears and division in the office.

Sounds like a totally different situation than the sexual harassment these women are enduring in a workplace which should be stamping this kind of behaviour out.

WifeOfTiresias · 15/02/2022 09:23

@Fungirls

WRT your colleague, I have previously worked with Trans colleagues and in my experience they would never behave like your colleague. They would be circumspect and discrete.

This is one of two things, they assume the female stereotypes on TV etc. are true and they are clumsily trying to be one of the girls or they are knowingly doing this to make you feel uncomfortable. Either way as a pp stated this is inappropriate behaviour in a workplace. The trouble is these days everyone is to scared to say anything, even though this is inappropriate, because of the transphobic/TERF accusations.

The solution is a dignity at work policy which sets out what is and isn’t appropriate in the workplace. In that situation HR or their line manager would have a quiet word pointing out that these types of conversations are not appropriate in the workplace.

The asking women for a tampon in the ladies loos is a favourite trick of those individuals with the kink that we are not allowed to talk about. Have seen it discussed on their online forums. It can only be aimed at making women feel uncomfortable as a transwoman has no genuine need for a tampon.
Enough4me · 15/02/2022 09:30

If the women said deadpan, "tampon, oh do you have a nosebleed coming on?", every time would that stop 'Jane'?

I'm not suggesting tampons are used for this, but for a male body with no other use it may be the only imaginable use for one?

Artichokeleaves · 15/02/2022 09:35

The asking women for a tampon in the ladies loos is a favourite trick of those individuals with the kink that we are not allowed to talk about. Have seen it discussed on their online forums. It can only be aimed at making women feel uncomfortable

Reminds me of the male journalist who used to write for the Guardian about his crossdressing lifestyle, and how he liked to go into lingerie shops and get young female assistants as involved as he could in his trying on and choosing, and in his own words he enjoyed smirking at them as he paid in a way that says 'I know you're not enjoying this, but I am'.

This is exploiting a non consenting person for personal sexual enjoyment, and it is sexual harassment and abuse of others. And turning on the taps of tears when challenged should not be successful in controlling others in the workplace either, regardless of sex or gender identity. It's just sheer unacceptable behaviour.

Fungirls · 15/02/2022 17:49

@WifeOfTiresias. I am aware of this kink, which is why I said one option is they are knowingly doing this to make the OP uncomfortable.

NrlySp · 15/02/2022 17:58

Have you read 'Trans' by Helen Joyce? If not I highly recommend it. A lot of what you are saying is referenced in this book.

WifeOfTiresias · 15/02/2022 18:32

[quote Fungirls]@WifeOfTiresias. I am aware of this kink, which is why I said one option is they are knowingly doing this to make the OP uncomfortable.[/quote]
Agreed, this and the intrusive questions about the sex lives of female colleagues really doesn't point to an innocent motivation.

MoetLove · 15/02/2022 19:55

I’ve no idea if it’s a fetish or not. I haven’t seen Jane for a while, I’ve stuck with my friendship with her wife.

I know that there was no creepy behaviour before transitioning at all, he was a good friend, brilliant colleague. It’s like all that he was has been binned in favour for some weird stereotype.

Jane genuinely seems to believe that this is normal woman behaviour, and is backed up by male colleagues.
My female ex colleagues are trying to deal with it themselves, being jokey and sending Jane on her way, but they are outnumbered by men who are doing their damndest to support Jane.

OP posts:
MoetLove · 15/02/2022 19:56

I have a copy of Trans but I haven’t read it yet.

OP posts:
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 15/02/2022 19:59

My female ex colleagues are trying to deal with it themselves, being jokey and sending Jane on her way, but they are outnumbered by men who are doing their damndest to support Jane.

How very odd that the people with no skin in the game are managing to have the valorised position of supporting a person who is like them to the continued disadvantage and discomfort of people who are not like them. Again, it's as if there's an invisible power dynamic in play here, if only a black light could be used to render it visible as in all the best forensic shows.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 15/02/2022 21:16

Again, it's as if there's an invisible power dynamic in play here, if only a black light could be used to render it visible as in all the best forensic shows.

If only!!!

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 15/02/2022 21:19

Jane genuinely seems to believe that this is normal woman behaviour, and is backed up by male colleagues.

Interesting that Jane looks for wisdom to Jane’s male colleagues about what is normal woman behaviour, rather than Jane’s female colleagues, who might be supposed to know a bit more about the subject.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 15/02/2022 21:27

I know that there was no creepy behaviour before transitioning at all, he was a good friend, brilliant colleague. It’s like all that he was has been binned in favour for some weird stereotype.

I’m genuinely surprised by this - that there was no hint at all of all the current creepiness in all the years preceding the “transition”. Very sad for you too. Sounds like a real double whammy in terms of both the loss of a great friend/former colleague, and the arrival of this new, creepy, serial sexual harasser in his place.

I guess at least it doesn’t impact you personally so much seeing as you’d left anyway, but it sounds absolutely bloody awful for the remaining women there, especially with the bog standard men joining forces and enabling Jane to harass them like this.

I hope they do raise a complaint against it. But way to ruin a formerly positive work environment, even if they do. (Jane’s behaviour, that is, not if the women bring a complaint!)

DomesticatedZombie · 16/02/2022 13:05

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

My female ex colleagues are trying to deal with it themselves, being jokey and sending Jane on her way, but they are outnumbered by men who are doing their damndest to support Jane.

How very odd that the people with no skin in the game are managing to have the valorised position of supporting a person who is like them to the continued disadvantage and discomfort of people who are not like them. Again, it's as if there's an invisible power dynamic in play here, if only a black light could be used to render it visible as in all the best forensic shows.

Grin
DomesticatedZombie · 16/02/2022 13:14

I don’t understand why so many intelligent adults are overlooking obviously signs that should be investigated, and instead just applying a blanket “they’re trans” which renders them untouchable, and in the child’s case makes them beyond needing therapy despite the many concerning behaviours that are obvious to anyone who meets them.

The 'why' is because there are many organisations heavily invested in propogating messages that have fostered and created this situation.

Stonewall's aggressive 'no debate' tactics worked for a long while, and are still working to an extent. You could read the Denton's document, too, to get an idea of the strategies behind this movement.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4059873-Deep-Dive-on-the-Dentons-document

An orthodoxy with its own baffling rules has been created, which are known only to those with a certain status (self proclaimed) - trans people or allies). The group is valorised with an avalanche of documentaries, news items, media pieces, and painted as 'the most marginalised and vulnerable'.

We are told that this group are so fragile we cannot even discuss issues involving them. We hear that a frightening number of trans people commit suicide.

www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

And most people being actually fairly tolerant and kind tend to accept this narrative. Until they're pushed to consider situations like the ones you've outlined above, OP. And then they educate themselves. Welcome.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 16/02/2022 14:31

We are told that this group are so fragile we cannot even discuss issues involving them. We hear that a frightening number of trans people commit suicide.

I've been thinking about this a lot. Suicide is a powerful trauma and has a distinctive anger, pain, and grief associated with it.

How many people are accepting the narrative that they can contribute, however ambiently, to an environment that triggers such a radical act? So much so that not only can they not challenge a person, they can't bring themselves to challenge any contribution to the ambient environment that they're led to believe will make the environment safer? And the fact that it worses the world for women and girls is nowhere because the nature of the debate and policing of language means that they can not be voiced without being accused of creating a hostile environment?

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