Tony Blair in The Times today

[oviraptor21]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4955e1e4-88d3-11ec-a837-0153f5f4adaf?shareToken=94c076de44190bb4e85a3885618c9f80

I assume he is going to cite the third way again, but Blair comes down firmly on the side of the author JK Rowling. “They [voters] don’t want a situation where women can’t talk about being women. I have this conversation quite often with Labour people and I know their inclination is to walk round this issue, but I am telling you to go right into it and resolve it in a way that makes it absolutely clear where you stand. That is how to shut down the Tories on it.”

Long article but about 4/5 of the way down.

I think Blair made an awful mistake with Iraq and I find it really hard to forgive him for that.

Same. I marched against the Iraq war. No! War! Not in my name!

Disagree about Brown: his tinkering with the financial system caused the biggest housing bubble in history and has priced out so many younger people (yes I know subsequent governments have done nothing to resolve this.)

That thing about Leo Blair noting that "There are feelings and there are facts, but right now feelings are more important." absolutely screamed out at me.

Whose bloody feelings? Whose feelings are more important than facts?

Not women's, obviously. Our feelings just don't even come into it.

It's actually staggering that anyone can make a statement like that and just have it left there hanging without the obvious challenge. It shows how deep seated misogyny is, that it's not worth pursuing the question of why the "feelings" of a tiny group of lunatics are considered more important than a)facts and b) the feelings of the majority of the population.

I actually gasped when I read it.

It's gonna be a long time till we see another Labour government innit.

Leo's words can be interpreted in two ways: was he observing feelz trump facts in the post-Trump world - ie it's not right but it's how it is, or was he in earnest.

Could be either.

As I said earlier - to take it at face value - if feelings are more important than facts - ok - women's feelings are important then and women are not happy.

The issue is really that men's feelz are more important than women's feelz.

Disagree about Brown: his tinkering with the financial system caused the biggest housing bubble in history and has priced out so many younger people (yes I know subsequent governments have done nothing to resolve this.)

The housing bubble a. went back to the 80s and b. was international. I really don't know why people still believe that the financial crisis was caused by the Labour government!

Brown and Darling actually did a really good job of sorting it out.

I also partly agree about T. Blair.

He's always given me the creeps but his administration was certainly the best government of my adult life. Bar Iraq - he would have gone down as very successful PM. However an illegal war is fairly mahoosive fuck up.

@TatianaBis

Disagree about Brown: his tinkering with the financial system caused the biggest housing bubble in history and has priced out so many younger people (yes I know subsequent governments have done nothing to resolve this.)

The housing bubble a. went back to the 80s and b. was international. I really don't know why people still believe that the financial crisis was caused by the Labour government!

Brown and Darling actually did a really good job of sorting it out.

Yes, exactly. Brown gets far more credit internationally for his role in minimising the impact of the financial crisis. Here, people seem to believe it was all his fault.

I guess we don't get taught economics at school.

@TatianaBis

I also partly agree about T. Blair.

He's always given me the creeps but his administration was certainly the best government of my adult life. Bar Iraq - he would have gone down as very successful PM. However an illegal war is fairly mahoosive fuck up.

That sums up exactly how I feel about him. It makes me all the more mad about the Iraq war tbh.

@ScreamingMeMe

I think Blair made an awful mistake with Iraq and I find it really hard to forgive him for that.

Same. I marched against the Iraq war. No! War! Not in my name!

Disagree about Brown: his tinkering with the financial system caused the biggest housing bubble in history and has priced out so many younger people (yes I know subsequent governments have done nothing to resolve this.)

I bought my first property in September 1986 for £33,000 and sold it in April 1989 for £66,000 — and I hadn't spent a penny improving or developing it. Margaret Thatcher/ the Tories had been in power since 1979.

I've bought and sold a number of properties since but have never known a housing bubble like that. But let's blame Labour!

Could you be any more patronising? Or incorrect. House prices had cyclical rises and falls until Brown fcked about with QE and the BOE kept interest rates low.

Anyway this is way off topic.

Look at that housing bubble back in the 80s, just like I said. All Thatcher's doing.

Brown used QE as a way out of a global collapse and has been widely credited by politicians and economists around the world for having saved us from the worst consequences of the bust. I think someone upthread has already said that he's much more appreciated abroad than at home.

Look at that housing bubble back in the 80s, just like I said. All Thatcher's doing.

And the one in the early 2000s?

Sure, the one leading up to 2008-9 was under Labour but was also part of a global phenomenon at least partly caused by out-of-control markets beyond UK control. Look at what was happening at that time in the US in particular. To blame it entirely on Labour would be unfair.

Increases in UK house prices were caused by 'what was happening at that time in the US'? Is that what you believe?

Look at that housing bubble back in the 80s, just like I said. All Thatcher's doing.

I never said otherwise.

I really don't know why people still believe that the financial crisis was caused by the Labour government!

I didn't say that.

I'm not interested in getting into a bog debate about Brown's management of the economy really. This thread is about Labour and identity politics.

Suffice it to say I don't rate him, feel it was somewhat a case of kicking the can further down the road and had the intended-or-not consequence of a massive house price bubble that hasn't really popped.

We’ve been in a bubble for 20 years. Nominal prices are now way beyond their 2007 peak as these graphs show.

The previous peaks were not “cyclical” rises and falls but prior bubbles - a brief one in 1973 ended by the oil crisis and the first major one at the end of the 80s was killed off by a jump in mortgage rates.

Interest rates fell in the late 90s and then BoE cut them to a then historic low in 2003 which started the current bubble.

It’s true that the 2007 bubble reached a historic high of 8.4 (house price to earnings ratio) but it was fuelled by low mortgage rates as well as reckless lending by banks + mortgage companies.

In response to the crisis BoE cut interest rates to new historic lows (where they have remained since) and started QE in 2009. The latter arguably saved the economy from falling into an even deeper recession.

The corollary record low mortgage rates have sustained the bubble long since Brown left the building.

@DifficultBloodyWoman

Also have to say - I thought I was the one with unfashionable views about Tony Blair 😂

Me too! I'm in Northern Ireland and won't forget how good he was for the peace process. Shame about the Iraq business, yes, but there was a lot of good stuff too before that...

@SukiPook, I think his role in Northern Ireland is often overlooked. It was really incredibly significant at the time.

@OldCrone

Increases in UK house prices were caused by 'what was happening at that time in the US'? Is that what you believe?

So the sub-prime mortgage boom that started in the US had no influence on anything that happened here? RBS, Barclays and the rest of the reckless bankers — they weren't at all influenced by what was going on across the pond?

So the sub-prime mortgage boom that started in the US had no influence on anything that happened here? RBS, Barclays and the rest of the reckless bankers — they weren't at all influenced by what was going on across the pond?

Influenced, yes. As far as I am aware the banks in the US were the first to start selling on mortgage debt in CDOs, but the UK banks weren't compelled to do the same. And it all happened under a Labour government which failed to take any action to stop it.

Looks like Sir Keir is a fan. Wonder if that means he'll listen to him?

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer told ITV’s Good Morning Britain: “I don’t think it’s a thorny issue for me at all. Tony Blair deserves the honour, he won three elections, he was a very successful Prime Minister.

“I haven’t got time this morning to list all of his many achievements which I think vastly improved our country.

“The one I would pick out in particular would be the work he did in Northern Ireland and the peace process and the huge change that has made.”

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tony-blair-backlash-knighthood-controversy-b982224.html?amp

[quote ScreamingMeMe]Looks like Sir Keir is a fan. Wonder if that means he'll listen to him?

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer told ITV’s Good Morning Britain: “I don’t think it’s a thorny issue for me at all. Tony Blair deserves the honour, he won three elections, he was a very successful Prime Minister.

“I haven’t got time this morning to list all of his many achievements which I think vastly improved our country.

“The one I would pick out in particular would be the work he did in Northern Ireland and the peace process and the huge change that has made.”

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tony-blair-backlash-knighthood-controversy-b982224.html?amp[/quote]
Starmer might respect Blair but he is not a talented politician like Tony and is also unlikely to have the courage to face down the trans lobby even if he personally think they're saying nonsense.

@OldCrone

So the sub-prime mortgage boom that started in the US had no influence on anything that happened here? RBS, Barclays and the rest of the reckless bankers — they weren't at all influenced by what was going on across the pond?

Influenced, yes. As far as I am aware the banks in the US were the first to start selling on mortgage debt in CDOs, but the UK banks weren't compelled to do the same. And it all happened under a Labour government which failed to take any action to stop it.

Off topic but RBS were massively into sub-prime through the huge American bank that they owned. They then bought ABN AMRO - for far too much money - which also had sub-prime exposure. Sub-prime exposure was global, basically.

I too agree that Brown did a really good job given the circs.

He also doesn't have a very close and gifted ally, like Brown, and he hasn't had Neil Kinnock to clear the way for him and a Mandelson-type figure smoothing the way in the background.

I too agree that Brown did a really good job given the circs.

Who are you agreeing with? I didn't say that. Brown did nothing to stop the massive housing bubble, even though in 1997, he said:

"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the future." He said he was determined that the UK should not return to the "instability, speculation and negative equity" of the 1980s and 1990s.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/budget97/live/housing.shtml

blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2010/04/brown-i-will-not-allow-house-prices-to-get-out-of-control.html

@Pluvia

He also doesn't have a very close and gifted ally, like Brown, and he hasn't had Neil Kinnock to clear the way for him and a Mandelson-type figure smoothing the way in the background.

I agree here. He does seem very much on his own.