I don't understand this issue with OnlyFans.

[DragonSnapCrimson]

I’ve been thinking about OnlyFans recently and can’t fully understand why it appears to be seen in such a bad light here.

In the cases where a person is pushed into it, feels it’s no other option etc then yes, I fully get why it’s not a good thing.

But I have seen some people on social media who are aware of all of the risks, aware that their photos could be shared with third parties etc and they’re completely ok with that, they’ve spoken on it. They’ve made buckets of money with the app in order to pay for uni, a house deposit among plenty of other things. So why would that be seen as a bad thing?

If they’re fully aware of the dangers/consequences yet still consent to it and make decent money for their future/whatever they like, then I don’t see the problem. Or is there no problem with people in this particular situation?

This post isn’t about other kinds of sex work, just OnlyFans.

I feel that as this type of thing is always going to be around

Is it though? I note that the majority of the clients are men, not women - why is that do you think?

I think it's because society grooms boys to not care, to find it all a bit of a laugh, to think it's acceptable, and if we change that, then this will change.

I can't imagine finding it a turn on to be able to command some bloke to undress/do things to himself for money. I would feel that I was an exploiter and an abuser, that sex is about both of us enjoying it, and that person clearly isn't, they're doing it for pay.

My boys are only young yet, still fairly innocent, they don't like watching violence, my eldest heard the word 'rape' from other boys at school and asked me about it, and the look of horror on his face was appropriate - but to other boys, it was a joke.

We need to do better raising our boys - so they understand other people exist and have feelings, and they are allowed to be gentle and want nice things.

And we need to raise our girls, that they don't have to be the world's service humans, that they can be angry when men don't treat them well.

I agree that some boys need to be raised differently, I moved from the UK when I was young but go back on a regular basis and the "lad culture" over there is overwhelming. There are issues where I am, of course, but the difference in boys and men is staggering. Respect of women is much much more ingrained where I am now. Catcalling isn't as common as where I visit in the UK, apps like OF arent anywhere near as widely used, even Tinder is sneered at a little bit as it's considered a way to "get sex" rather than find a relationship, so they're not interested.

Sadly, I do think it's going to be around forever. It's a multi million industry and I can't see it changing, very unfortunately.

@Fluffymule

I have also heard of people who don't ever post their face, their pictures are taken in front of a white background and all identifying features (like tattoos or birth marks) are photoshopped out, so I think those people are a lot safer from blackmail, unless their account gets hacked of course!

If you've heard that then you will also of heard that they don't keep their subscribers for long either.

These men are buying to their own demands, not to women's safeguarding preferences. They do not want headless, bland content.

They want interaction. They want 'lives' - live streaming of prescribed acts and language, commentary. They want to see a face, lips, eye contact. That's what they pay for.

What you describe is not what successful OF women are doing.

This isn't really true. There's quite a lot of people who don't show their face and make good money. Pictures of feet are very popular for example.

I'm not on onlyfans but at the risk of endearing me even more to the regular posters here I've done quite a lot of online sex work and I know quite a few people who work on onlyfans.

The way you make money is not generally by doing more and more extreme things, although some people incorrectly think that's the case. It's finding a niche and working it. That could be nudes and exlicit clips, it could be sugar baby stuff (being someone's online 'girlfriend', it could be specialising in a certain kink or quite commonly online domination. Financial domination is very big and there are some women making a huge amount of money doing it and they don't do any nudity at all, neither do the pro Dommes.

The real money is in the interactions and tips - basically and to be frank, can you get a man turned on in your DMs and then rinse him, some people are very good at this and they are the big earners and many of hem do not do very explicit stuff. Also like anything else it depends how much time you put in, how well you promote yourself etc. It's not free money and the people earning 10k plus a month put in a lot of work.

None of this means I think it is a wonderful thing that site like onlyfans exist. But I do wonder how many of those saying this work is uniquely exploitative have experience of doing minimum wage work in some of the most exploitative sectors for any length of time - and knowing this is it, your life, not just something you're doing in the Summer whilst taking a degree or until you get a professional job. I've found online sex work boring, depressing, compromising and some of the men are eugh, but the thought of doing it doesn't chill me to the bone like the thought of having to work in a call centre again does. Lots of jobs are exploitative and misery making, cleaning middle class people's homes is demeaning and depressing, jobs where you have to ask permission to use the toilet are demeaning and depressing, jobs where the employer can't even be bothered to meet basic safety standards are demeaning and depressing (and dangerous). It's no surprise to me at all that many people would rather work on onlyfans then do that kind of work - and little surprise that many of the people who's lifestyles depend on people doing that kind of work object to onlyfans.

But the idea that someone making a couple of thousand a month selling pictures of their bum or feet on onlyfans is more exploitated than an amazon warehouse worker just doesn't match many people's lived experiences in many cases. As a poster above said it's only by creating a society where everyone has meaningful work that gives them a decent quality of life, and those who can't work are equally supported, will things like onlyfans disappear.

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Well, this was Ireland, and I'd say the most segregated my boys were from girls at school was in Italy.

It's hard to know though, as at many international schools I've found that the difference was so big because all the kids came from different places, that differences in sex fell by the wayside - so it's not the standard experience that local kids will have.

I work in a sexist industry, and the expectation is present everywhere I've lived - women do the grunt work, women have to be ornamental, women will be pursued, and spoken about in horrific ways behind their back (I've seen text conversations I wasn't supposed to).

It's not an industry - nothing is being made, just women, particularly young women exploited, and men given the expectation that this is OK. We've overcome other massive societal ills (drink-driving, not wearing seatbelts, smoking indoors) - both habits, and massive (actual) industries - I don't see why we can't fix this.

@barleybadminton Wow, fantastic post. I'm really pleased to hear from someone who has worked in the industry, thank you! The way you've explained things is closer to the idea I have in my head of OF and the like and I do also like your comparison to Amazon workers. We're all seemingly fine with that, but turn our noses up at OF when for some (most?) the conditions are far worse.

@Goatsaregreat

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I point you to this OP. It bears repeating.

@Goatsaregreat

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And shit like this just reveals what some people really think about sex workers and that little of this is down to any genuine concern that people are being exploited.

It's finding a niche and working it.

Like giving men more extreme stuff than other girls will, for instance.

Barley is one of our resident libertarian/porn apologists, but it’s interesting to hear of their experiences in the “sex industry”. (I’m not sure I’d call OnlyFans and webcamming an “industry”, though - to do so might glamorise something that in its structure is very simple indeed.)

@barleybadminton if it’s so “empowering” why does your description sound so sordid and small-time grafting? One can’t have it both ways - either it’s easy and glamorous it it’s hard work and marginal better than doing shifts in an Amazon warehouse. Which is it?

The very coexistence of the simultaneous “it’s great easy money for pictures of feet and financial domination!” doesn’t gel with the “it’s hard graft and just like any other work, honest guv” angle. Is there a reason for that? (Hint - they can’t both be plausibly true)

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's finding a niche and working it.

Like giving men more extreme stuff than other girls will, for instance.

No not really. That's not what the people making a lot of money are generally doing. There are people who do very explicit stuff for sure, although there's only so far you can go on your own with a webcam anyway, but it doesn't automatically make them the high earners. And in fact it's been a way out of full contact sex work or more extreme porn for a lot of people.

We're not just talking about "people making a lot of money" though.

Fox, from Barleys description it sounds like a mix of both some easy factors and some hard graft, much like most jobs, mine certainly has both. Why wouldn't that be plausible? Or have I misunderstood you?

And in fact it's been a way out of full contact sex work or more extreme porn for a lot of people.

Why do these people want to get out of that? Are they not empowered to simply do so if they wish?

Interesting point, though. Do you think it goes the other way at all?

Also - did anyone watch the stalker Stacey Dooley programme on BBC3? One of those women was a dancer and a bloke had started stalking her quite terrifyingly based on what he'd seen of her.

@foxgoosefinch

Barley is one of our resident libertarian/porn apologists, but it’s interesting to hear of their experiences in the “sex industry”. (I’m not sure I’d call OnlyFans and webcamming an “industry”, though - to do so might glamorise something that in its structure is very simple indeed.)

@barleybadminton if it’s so “empowering” why does your description sound so sordid and small-time grafting? One can’t have it both ways - either it’s easy and glamorous it it’s hard work and marginal better than doing shifts in an Amazon warehouse. Which is it?

The very coexistence of the simultaneous “it’s great easy money for pictures of feet and financial domination!” doesn’t gel with the “it’s hard graft and just like any other work, honest guv” angle. Is there a reason for that? (Hint - they can’t both be plausibly true)

Please don't tell lies about me, I've never even talked about porn on here before, and I'm not an apologist for it.

I suggest you re-read my post. Nowhere did I say it was empowering, quite the opposite in fact, I said it was boring, depressing and compromising. But guess what, being poor is boring, depressing and compromising and involves making choices of which none are particularly appealing - and whether you like it or not, some people find this kind of work less demeaning than a lot of other minimum wage jobs - and you generally get paid more and can work your own hours. .

I'm very happy for Barley to speak on this topic as they have more knowledge on it, having been involved. Its difficult to know about it if you've not been in it. We can all pass judgements and have opinions on it, but if we've not experienced it ourselves then we can't say for sure. The only way to be fully (or just more than average) informed is also to hear from people who have more experience in the matter.

Please don't tell lies about me, I've never even talked about porn on here before, and I'm not an apologist for it.

A couple of months ago you were defending the right of individuals who work with children to post porny pictures of their sexual interests - eg. BDSM and gun kinks - on social media, because they should be able to express themselves? Isn’t that being an apologist for porn culture and libertarianism? Is posting sexy pictures on Facebook of yourself dressed up as a dominatrix with a whip nothing like doing it on a subscription site for cash? Either way it’s a big investment in the libertarian idea that individuals should be able to do anything they like online or off, and that this is all fine and harmless, regardless of the impact on others or on wider society.

Reading with intrigue,

Why do these people want to get out of that? Are they not empowered to simply do so if they wish?

Well no, not if they've got kids to feed or rent to pay. Contrary to what a lot of people think it's very difficult in the Uk to get any kind of training or education that will lead to improving your situation, the DWP tends to prefer things like unpaid work trials in Asda or pointless employability couses that really just function as a revenue stream for welfare to work companies. But onlyfans and other online platforms give people a chance to do sex work in a safer way.

Interesting point, though. Do you think it goes the other way at all?

Probably although I think it would be wrong to say it entices or encourages people into full contact sex work who wouldn't have gone there anyway. And onlyfans and other comparable platforms have pretty strict rules about soliciting or arranging to meet, which isnt to say it never happens but you'd get banned if you got caught.

Some people do both of course, and a lot of Dommes, or porn performers or higher paid escorts will have an onlyfans page even if all they do is post a couple of pics a week because it's an income stream, even if a small one - and also it prevents people setting up fake profiles in their name which is quite a big problem for anyone with a reasonably high profile online. That's why some of the earnings look so low, if all you do is post the odd pic you won't make much, like I said the real money is in the interactions, but it's still worth doing for the sake of ten minutes work a week.

That is just absolutely awful. Do you know if he was deemed the "asshole" on that by the majority

Before the post got deleted and the thread got locked, the comments seemed to be mostly composed of women in STEM or STEM-adjacent fields flaming him to death. But I doubt his boss agrees, and that's what will affect Ella's life.

@foxgoosefinch

Please don't tell lies about me, I've never even talked about porn on here before, and I'm not an apologist for it.

A couple of months ago you were defending the right of individuals who work with children to post porny pictures of their sexual interests - eg. BDSM and gun kinks - on social media, because they should be able to express themselves? Isn’t that being an apologist for porn culture and libertarianism? Is posting sexy pictures on Facebook of yourself dressed up as a dominatrix with a whip nothing like doing it on a subscription site for cash? Either way it’s a big investment in the libertarian idea that individuals should be able to do anything they like online or off, and that this is all fine and harmless, regardless of the impact on others or on wider society.

I don't think someone posting a picture online of them wearing a leather dress and holding a riding crop whilst making a joke about being a Mistress is porn, but I'd rather not derail this thread with a discussion about that.

But onlyfans and other online platforms give people a chance to do sex work in a safer way.

Riiiiight - no one in OF has ever been stalked, threatened, had their employment at risk then no? It's totally safe...

Well no, not if they've got kids to feed or rent to pay.

So it's not a choice then?

Before the post got deleted and the thread got locked, the comments seemed to be mostly composed of women in STEM or STEM-adjacent fields flaming him to death. But I doubt his boss agrees, and that's what will affect Ella's life.

Hahaha glad that he got told off for that at least then, I immediately noticed he was diminishing her work. Good on them.

I don't think someone posting a picture online of them wearing a leather dress and holding a riding crop whilst making a joke about being a Mistress is porn

How do you know it was a joke? Do you know this individual personally?

What about the photos of this male, who works with children at Scouts and Girl Guides posing with a gun (which I believe was fake)?

OP - you can search poster history should you wish to see more...

I’m minded to set up an OnlyFans myself to be honest - I used to be very pretty, but now am a classic middle aged fat albeit lesbian gone to seed mum (I must be someone’s kink, surely?) - but my feet are rather attractive still, I have to say. I could do with that extra cash, so I think actually I may start up an OnlyFans and see if that “extra ten minutes a week” that barley promises really does pay off with those house deposits.

I mean it’s not like it sounds like the 2022 equivalent of selling your used pants on eBay or anything, does it?

Come on barley, which is it, harmless non porn safe everyday work or gruelling hard graft? Are men really going to be paying that much for my feet pics (or pics of me in a leather corset?)

Odd how you class “financial dominatrix” as sex work, but not photos of someone posing in a leather dominatrix costume.

Shall I add you as a referral link for my foot pics OF? If it makes so much easy money you should be keen to sign me up, no?