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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

WTF, Iran? *TW - EXTREME VIOLENCE*

20 replies

AffIt · 08/02/2022 21:49

What the actual fuck?

www.rferl.org/a/iran-beheading-honor-killing-violence-women/31693367.html

OP posts:
ItsLateHumpty · 08/02/2022 22:00

Reports say Mona Heydari had been forced into marrying her cousin and that she had given birth to her son when she was only 14. According to Iranian media reports, she is said to have been subjected to violence by her husband, who had refused to divorce her.

That poor girl - a short and brutal life and another child (her son) left behind.

Men and their ‘honour’ can GTF.

RoseslnTheHospital · 08/02/2022 22:08

I wish they wouldn't call these murders "honour" killings. They should quite clearly call them misogynistic attacks on vulnerable children/young women.

When I read this news item today I just despaired at the rage and contempt that so many men have for women and girls. It's just constant. Women don't do it to men and boys - why are we subject to it from men?? I know there's no easy answer.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 08/02/2022 22:16

"honour" killings. They should quite clearly call them misogynistic attacks on vulnerable children/young women.

Misogyny-driven femicides in a patriarchal system.

I wish Mona Heydari had known peace and genuine childhood in her short life.

girafferafferaffe · 08/02/2022 22:39

My heart breaks for these women and girls.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 08/02/2022 23:12

This is the reality of misogyny, isn’t it. Women/girls are literally owned by their male relatives who may take their lives if they choose.

Did others see the story of another Iranian girl killed by her father in an “honour killing” two years ago? Romina Ashrafi, also beheaded, aged just 14. Her father consulted a lawyer before killing her to see how long he’d get.

In the event he was sentenced to eight years, two years shy of the maximum penalty. If he hadn’t been her guardian, he could have faced the death sentence, but seeing as he “owned” her, the crime wasn't as great. What kind of a morality system is that?

I actually felt relief when I read the in article that he killed her while she was asleep; I just hope she didn’t wake up. And that in itself is chilling beyond measure.

If he’d faced a harsher consequence, maybe this young man wouldn’t have been emboldened to take Mona’s life, now.

What a hellhole Iran now is for women.

RIP Mona and Romina.

foxgoosefinch · 08/02/2022 23:16

I’m so angry and despairing reading that. And here we live with a whole generation of people who think not being called by their “preferred pronouns” is oppression and “literal violence”. Fucking hell!!!!

Linguini · 09/02/2022 01:04

Iran is a hellhole

I'm just going to mention this because it's about Iran, I wouldn't normally derail a thread about femicide and misogyny to make it all about trans, but it's worth mentioning to those previously unaware that in Iran....

Homosexuality is illegal in Iran and is punishable by imprisonment or execution.
One way to avoid execution or imprisonment is by having gender reassignment surgery, basically gay man saying I'm not gay I'm a woman (lesbians are largely overlooked).
The Iranian government fund these surgeries.

The national Iranian women's football team has about 8 male people in it.
Just Google "Iran women's football team" and look at them.

Deliriumoftheendless · 09/02/2022 06:14

I don’t even know what to put here.

I don’t even know where you begin making a change to protect these girls and women.

ScreamingMeMe · 09/02/2022 07:36

Oh my god. 17 years old and she went through so much Sad

Barbarantia · 09/02/2022 08:15

Some men wish they could leave they could live in fear of this. I wish it was a wish and I didn't feel this was too close to home.

Barbarantia · 09/02/2022 08:16

Ugh. Cross out the "wish they could leave" in the middle there.

DomesticatedZombie · 09/02/2022 09:13

How could a father do this to his daughter?

RIP Mona and Romina. Flowers

Torunette · 09/02/2022 09:21

There's something strange about this case. Something about it is not being reported, and I don't read Farsi so I can't figure out what it is from Iranian sources.

This is not just about a child bride married to a cousin, and an "honour killing".

Looking at what is available in English, I get the sense she was married off to her cousin because he has severe mental health problems. The family were aware that no-one else would have him, and they wanted him off their plate. I also wonder if there is a diaspora element to it?

They've married him to Mona, she's realised how bad the situation is, she's escaped to Turkey, then come back after promises of safety, and the severely mentally ill husband has cut her head off.

No-one with a sound mind in Iran, even in the most rural areas, thinks it is okay to parade a severed head through the streets. You can see this by the Iranian government's response, which is basically a Persian version of "Oh shit."

I get a bit itchy when people talk about "honour killings" as though they are acceptable in the particular culture in question. Ten to one, the families concerned are always severely dysfunctional, and the cases shock the life out of other people in the area.

To be blunt, "honour killings" are what we call the actions of family annihilators who happen to be Muslim. And it is not a good practice because it stops us from seeing the truth behind the cases.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/02/2022 09:31

To be blunt, "honour killings" are what we call the actions of family annihilators who happen to be Muslim. And it is not a good practice because it stops us from seeing the truth behind the cases.

Thank you for that very helpful perspective which is more informed than the coverage that's typically available to us.

I tend to notice the stories that involve women and children. Is it common than I realise for "honour killings" to involve the death of men and boys in the style of family annihilator with which I'm more familiar (although it's typically the father/man who kills the woman and the children)?

Torunette · 09/02/2022 10:12

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

To be blunt, "honour killings" are what we call the actions of family annihilators who happen to be Muslim. And it is not a good practice because it stops us from seeing the truth behind the cases.

Thank you for that very helpful perspective which is more informed than the coverage that's typically available to us.

I tend to notice the stories that involve women and children. Is it common than I realise for "honour killings" to involve the death of men and boys in the style of family annihilator with which I'm more familiar (although it's typically the father/man who kills the woman and the children)?

I can't think of a case off the top of my head where there has been a son victim alone, probably because they are not then reported as an "honour" killing. There have been "honour" cases that have involved all the children through.

Ten to one, it's always a family with a very disturbed male individual in it, usually the father, though it is sometimes the eldest son or an uncle. What tends to have happened is that the males in the family, maybe even the neighbourhood itself, have protected themselves from the disturbed individual though employing non-confrontation as a tactic.

In short, they go along with the behaviour to keep the peace. This then enables the behaviour and, eventually, the disturbed individual escalates to the point of murder because the paranoia, the psychosis, it has all been left unchecked.

One of the issues is that these cases tend to occur in very rural areas, and this is used as a kind of excuse by the wider culture: "oh, well, they are villagers, aren't they?" The concept of the 'villager' often has overtones of Royston Vasey in many Middle Eastern cultures.

But I do suspect it is actually the other way round. These cases occur more in rural areas because, in urban areas, you cannot get away with very troubling "alarm bell" behaviour as easily as you can in a more isolated village. In urban areas, neighbours call the police and there are police that will attend that do not have ties to the family or the specific situation, and so on.

I do know, for example, there have been some cases where it is pretty obvious the annihilator has had severe PTSD, usually through an experience of war, has then come home to their village or been resettled elsewhere, and their mind has just deteriorated to the point of criminal insanity. There's a couple of terrorist backgrounds that are quite similar to that model as well.

celiamary · 09/02/2022 10:48

How sad for all the women who are attacked in this way.
Also very sad for so many in Iran. I was able to live in cities safely by myself before the Revolution. So many women then were proud that it was so much better than Saudi and other Islamic countries.
Now, it's all gone to rat-shit.

Hestyo · 09/02/2022 11:04

@Deliriumoftheendless

I don’t even know what to put here.

I don’t even know where you begin making a change to protect these girls and women.

Same. 8 years for the man who coldly and premeditated murders his daughter. 24 years for the woman who doesn't wear her hijab. Where do you even start?

Not to do with Iran, but I have/had 4 friends whose parents were born in Pakistan. One, aged 20, narrowly avoided being abducted and forced to marry a cousin when she went to visit family in Pakistan.
The other was bullied into marrying her cousin over here at 18. Her mother-in-law/aunt was abusive and her husband/cousin also very quickly started beating her. When she fled to her parents she was told she needed to go back to her marriage and make it work.
The third was raped several times by her husband's friend. Police (UK) of course did nothing.
Fourth was going to be shipped off and forcibly married to a cousin. Her parents stopped her having contact with us. Another friend and I rang police who said there was nothing they could do as the parents had told us everything was fine! We rang again, got a different officer who said first officer was wrong, went to the house, spoke to the parents, and she ended up not being sent off for an arranged marriage.

I don't really know why I'm writing this. Just anger I suppose that even when women and girls reach a country where they should be freer, this continues, and perhaps from liberal squeamishness, we don't intervene to protect them. I'm thinking of the lack of fgm convictions, the first police officer who didn't want to help my friend, the number of girls still forced into marriage, Dr Christian and Dr Harrop happily chatting about little girls being married to older men as a benign cultural difference.

I feel so sad for the girls who had the misfortune to be born in places where they are treated like this.

DomesticatedZombie · 09/02/2022 11:59

Torunette, thank you. Helpful information. I agree the phrase 'honour killings' seems to obfuscate and misdirect.

Torunette · 09/02/2022 12:49

Just anger I suppose that even when women and girls reach a country where they should be freer, this continues, and perhaps from liberal squeamishness, we don't intervene to protect them.

I think a lot of it is down to isolationism, and the politics of a diasporic community and their relations with the "host" community (for want of a better term).

I've known cases of forced marriage in Britain where no-one is aware of what has happened outside of the diaspora community, and no-one inside the community wants to rock the boat because of the social consequences of exposing the community to the police. So they just whisper about it, and give the poor bartered spouse those quick half-wary, half-pity looks when they see them.

And with cousin marriage, there's often a lot of family politics behind it. People want to keep wealth, businesses (and power and influence) within the family. They think, mistakenly, that a daughter having an aunt for a mother-in-law will mean she is treated more favourably within her husband's household. They think the risk of losing access to grandchildren in the event of a divorce is lessened. The marriage may provide a visa to Britain for a nephew or niece, and give a second or third brother or sister higher status within the wider family hierarchy, or cement the power of a first born sibling over the rest of the family.

In their minds, there are good reasons for cousin marriage. Reasons enough to force the issue.

And when it occurs within a diaspora community that is isolated, it is very difficult to a) hear about it and b) for the police to do anything once they are notified, particularly if the spouse in question fears being exiled from the familial support network so thus will not officially give evidence, which let's be honest takes a backbone of steel in such circumstances.

Not that I am excusing the Police because they are shit when it comes to the issue. I'm just not sure the Police are the most appropriate way of dealing with the problem.

ForPeaceSake · 10/02/2022 11:34

@Torunette
Thank you, I was about to say something similar.

Really, there's no difference between a man killing his wife in Iran because she "dishonoured him" and a man killing his wife in the US because she "disrespected him." The term "honour killing" is misleading and should be retired. These are just very violent and in some cases disturbed men.

No one in Iran thinks this is ok.

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